I disagree. I like down, because it corresponds to the direction the Clonk's hands are moving to pick things up. If you press "Down", the Clonk kneels down to pick up stuff. Maybe it would be easier to understand if the associated kneel-down animation was stronger. Or if the Clonk also kneels down when there is no item to pick up.(The same logic could apply if you reach for stuff from the wall while climbing, though arguably it's not as clear in that case).
It's also bad practice to assign too many unrelated actions to the same key (i.e. Space). In this case, picking up stuff that's lying in front of buildings becomes unnecessarily tedious.
![[de]](/mwf/flags/de.png "Germany")
> Or if the Clonk also kneels down when there is no item to pick up.
Which would be crouching which I had in mind for a possible use for the down key. Not unthinkable for packs like CMC or Hazard. If you set this to 'pick up' now, any of those packs would have to redefine basic controls.
> It's also bad practice to assign too many unrelated actions to the same key
Well then, let's make a pick up key!
/edit
In general, on the current pick up mechanic: Personally, I end up picking up stuff I don't want to, by just moving around. This applies to the current release / master branch where there's still many small objects scattered in any mine. That's why this easy pick up method bothers me more and more.
>In general, on the current pick up mechanic: Personally, I end up picking up stuff I don't want to, by just moving around. This applies to the current release / master branch where there's still many small objects scattered in any mine. That's why this easy pick up method bothers me more and more.
That is completely gone in my experience if you are on Controls and carry-heavy at the same time!
> (The same logic could apply if you reach for stuff from the wall while climbing, though arguably it's not as clear in that case).
I'd rather have a seperate button for picking up instead of having the players be aware of their context (to apply that "logic") everytime they want to pick something up.
> It's also bad practice to assign too many unrelated actions to the same key (i.e. Space)
Admittedly, many games do have a "Do something!" Button ([e] or [space], for example) to pull levers, pick things up, talk to shopkeepers and disarm traps. That works out well enough for them, because its rare that a shopkeeper who sells levers has secured his merchandise with traps. The heros (or cameras) facing and distance can be used to select the object to interact with if there are more around. Also, these games are rarely completely moddable, so its unlikely that someone will add completely new actions to that button. To further aid the player, the focused object is often marked by some outline, and a tooltip is describing what action is associated to the interaction button for that object. ("[e] - pick up assault rifle", "[e] - talk to shopkeeper").
If our interaction button is to unpredictable, some of these techniques might help.
>* lorry is useless, you need to pick up the resource and put it into the lorry (bug: lorries don't catch carry heavy with their collection zones), so using the lorry is tedious and barely advantageous compared to just walking around.
A inventory slot reduction is no 100% solution for this but I've read a few times that the plan was to have five slots for the Clonk?
I was already playing on Controls (which has 5 slots), but carry heavy objects don't go into the inventory and you can only carry one at a time. So you are confusing something here I guess.
> If you want I can make a proposal for material costs for structures and vehicles, the way it is now is not the right balancing for sure.
Yes, that would be most appreciated. ;)
> bug: lorries don't catch carry heavy with their collection zones
Ah. The other collection zones probably don't do that either. Noted.
Good feedback. I agree that transportation is tedious. The first goal of this branch was to make transport more difficult, as it was in CR (one object only) and even more (no scaling / hangling). That was easy but is not finished. I begun working on the Terraflint, there's also the ultra slow pickup animation.
The next goal should be to invent proper sweetening of transport. What can we do about that? Easier lorry handling, ways to overcome obstacles. Creativity is needed!
Construction costs stand somewhere inbetween. Right now, it is fine to shrink those because we don't have any nice ways to reduce walking effort. We might want to raise them again after transport is super nice!
I made a start, I'll update it later, after feedback and when I have more time.
>>The next goal should be to invent proper sweetening of transport. What can we do about that? Easier lorry handling, ways to overcome obstacles. Creativity is needed!
Lift Tower?
Railway?
Splendid ideas, indeed!Unfortunately, the rope tower doesn't work without a proper rope implementation, which we lack. I don't expect anything to happen in that direction too soon.
The railway on the other hand raised major discussions. So big in fact, that I stopped working on it and planned to release it as a personal addon, not as original content.
Terraflint (sorry, Andriel!) has been added now. You get it from digging the firestone material. You can split it into three small firestones in the Chemical Lab.Also, the lifting time is split in half for more convenience.
I also applied the balancing suggestions from Maikel.
>(sorry, Andriel!)
:P I guess I can live with it.
Anyway, time to test!
![[at]](/mwf/flags/at.png "Austria")
Can't play Clonk without Terajumps! ;P
Feedback
Scenario played: Goldrush
-Pick-up-area is too small, some chunks I couldn't pick up at all
-The amount of terraflints spawned when digging firestone is too high. Also I think you should only get two small flints for splitting instead of three.
-Why are small rocks still spawned in the earth?
-Too many small flints spawned in the earth
-Gold bar still has three small gold chunks as production material, and therefore is not producable
-It isn't possible to throw anything into the lorry
-Some interaction priorities are off: "let-go-off-elevator" should be before "pick-up-material"
-You get interaction icons for picking up objects although you already have something in your hands. Dunno whether fixable.
BUG:
When you try to pick up a heavy that is too far away it seems, the clonk runs left and right, and the material is teleported into mid-air and falls down. This killed one of my clonks when he tried to pick up a terraflint.
Confirmed all of those, fixed the gold bar issue.
Clonkonaut do you have an idea for the lorry problem? Making the chunks collectible is probably not an option, or?
Clonkonaut do you have an idea for the lorry problem? Making the chunks collectible is probably not an option, or?
> Clonkonaut do you have an idea for the lorry problem? Making the chunks collectible is probably not an option, or?
Scripted collection zones checking for IsChunk() would do, I guess. Will be a scenario-breaking change for Clonk Party, though!
Why? The only minigame that's using the lorry is Berry Pickers, and that should still work (assuming that the check will be item.Collectible || item.IsChunk()).
Yes, it will work but with far less tactical elements! The major tactic is to have your lorry at the same spot than the other player to keep the berry bouncing until one of you makes an mistakes. After the change, whichever lorry's script is triggered will always collect the berry. So one player is just luckier than the other.
Bouncing is implemented in RejectEntrance. Unless your plan is to remove the engine internal collection and replace it by a buggy script implementation that doesn't do proper callbacks, you should be fine.The simplest solution would of course be to make all CarryHeavy collectible and just prevent collection by Clonks in RejectEntrance.
Thanks for the feedback, well appreciated! I was really hoping to not have to dig into the interaction bar code and change it's behaviour but apparently that's necessary to get all the fiddly handling away.> -Why are small rocks still spawned in the earth?
That's just me being lazy. I was hoping to soon set the chunk IDs to the small and thus replaced only what seemed necessary for proper testing.
> When you try to pick up a heavy that is too far away it seems, the clonk runs left and right,
How were you able to pick up the chunk? Did you get an interaction button?
> You get interaction icons for picking up objects although you already have something in your hands. Dunno whether fixable.
It is fixable but wouldn't that be nice for a quick change or something?
>Thanks for the feedback, well appreciated! I was really hoping to not have to dig into the interaction bar code and change it's behaviour but apparently that's necessary to get all the fiddly handling away.
Be aware that the interaction bar behavior has changed in the Controls branch
>How were you able to pick up the chunk? Did you get an interaction button?
Okay, I just tested a bit more and I was slightly wrong, it is actually reproducable by trying to pick up while running. I also noticed that sometimes the clonk will not run left and right by himself, but the object will always drop from a few pixels height. Also, once I was able to pick an object up directly while I was running past, no animation, it just teleported into my hands.
>It is fixable but wouldn't that be nice for a quick change or something?
Sorry, I forgot to mention that you can't actually do a quick change, red text will pop up saying: "Hands are full" or something.
I will see to pass some changes asap. I haven't had proper time for OC coding the last two weeks but will get better soon. At least I made good progess on my editor ;)For a start, I will get on better chunk handling like your pickup problems or lorry stuff. Afterwards, it might become necesarry to merge Controls into heavy-resources to do stuff with the interaction bar.
If you merge controls into heavy-resources, that means that it can't be merged into master until the controls branch is finished.
What's your suggestion then? Work with the master interaction bar and ditch the work, once controls is done?
Depends on which branch is completed later, if that is controls you could merge heavy into controls and develop the bar on controls.
We could also decide to merge everything (that is tutorials, heavy, controls) into one branch and develop that. I don't know what is the best way to be honest.
We could also decide to merge everything (that is tutorials, heavy, controls) into one branch and develop that. I don't know what is the best way to be honest.
To merge everything into one branch would certainly be the easiest. However, heavy resources would not be part of a soon release then given that Zapper will need some more time to work on it (and on his bachelor thesis before).It's your choice.
I'm eager to get heavy resources into the/a next release. So I will work with what we got now.
After thinking about it again, it is probably easiest to merge heavy-resources into master, then master into Controls and then tutorials into Controls. We then have only two branches left heavy-resources seems mature enough for master, and we need play testing so the snapshots can be used then. Tutorials should be merged into controls anyways since the tutorials are made for the Controls branch, this wasn't possible so far since the tutorials also needed heavy-resources.
Also we need to start adapting the settlement scenarios to heavy-resources a bit, and I think Controls does not require that so much, so that can be merged into master much faster.
Also we need to start adapting the settlement scenarios to heavy-resources a bit, and I think Controls does not require that so much, so that can be merged into master much faster.
You could make a new branch which represents the merge between heavy and controls, plus any development that depends on having the two merged. Things might become a bit twisted though...
tutorials already is such a branch, cause I am developing those for both carry-heavy and Controls. So Clonkonaut you are invited to use that branch as long as you don't mess up the folder Tutorials.ocf. And it is even better for me because I don't need to the regular merging myself.
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