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Up Topic General / Feedback and Ideas / Replenishing Earth
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- - By Ringwaul [ca] Date 2009-07-29 16:47
I had an idea a while back for Clonk where dug-out tunnels could fill back up with dirt when not in use. The reason for this is because in most scenarios the ground quickly deteriorates from mining and other digging and essentially ruins the map. To fix this, unused dug-out tunnels could "cave in" where the earth slowly replenishes itself. Also, to combat the problem of mining every mineral from the ground, volcanoes could deposit random chunks of say, Iron, Gold, or even Rock.

In the real world we can recycle old metal, and dirt conserves it's mass while digging. However, in Clonk this isn't the case. If the previously stated concepts are possible it could fix the problem of inevitable destruction for maps.
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Parent - By r4uz [nl] Date 2009-07-29 18:33
I think this is a valid point about the dirt. It would make the gameworld less predictable, thus more dynamic.

It would mean that

- Only you are needed to create tunnels
- Everyone is needed to let tunnels cave in. (as in... no one should enter the section of the tunnel for a while)

It would introduce interesting player interaction. You could make missions where you can't dig but must keep the dug-out tunnels intact, and it would be impossible for one player to do so. Thus more teamwork is needed.
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Parent - - By Travis Date 2009-07-29 23:15
Good idea, but it is really clonkish that the earth looks so ruined after a round. In a Settlement it would make sense though. 
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Parent - By Ringwaul [ca] Date 2009-07-30 06:49
Many things are changing in Clonk you must keep in mind; though this effect is reminiscent to rounds it is not necessary. If this improves the gameplay and playability of a game, I think it should either be fully implemented or added as a rule.
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Parent - By Cani [de] Date 2009-08-02 16:56
good idea
What do you think about collapsing tunnels? Imagine a normal digged tunnel will collapse after a certain time if you do not build some kind of shoring. You could determine this time by a rule. There would not just appear dirt, the earth will fall down from the upper levels. If you have a really deep mine and a tunnel at it's deepest point collapses, this could cause depressions on the zero level of the world. You could also remove the shoring to collapse the tunnel on purpose.
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Parent - - By Ringwaul [ca] Date 2009-08-04 14:15
If anyone would like to test this to see how it works, you can download a 'Cave In' rule for CR I made:
Download

It includes supports and whatnot to stop dirt from filling tunnels you want open.
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Parent - - By Ape [fi] Date 2009-08-04 16:25

>Only half the idea of this rule was to make the landscape 'collapse'. The other part was that the map could regenerate itself without looking ridiculous. Maps in Clonk quickly degrade into anthill like carvings- I wanted to have the choice to turn that off.


I think one of the great parts in Clonk is that you make the surroundings. So it is a nice thing to have the thoroughly dug earth in the end. This idea is still nice and I'm interested how it might work.
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Parent - By Ringwaul [ca] Date 2009-08-06 23:41
I'm thinking if this is to be implemented, it should be in an externally developed pack (made by me). The results I have seen at CCAN.de show that some people love it, and some think it's stupid. Summary... I don't think this should be implemented into the base OpenClonk game.
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Parent - - By Asmageddon [pl] Date 2009-08-12 18:42
It would be better idea to make material chunks always appear, and cointain exactly amount of material that was dug out. Material chunks would fly twice as far as other items when affected by explosion, so there will still be crater.
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Parent - - By Ringwaul [ca] Date 2009-08-12 22:04
This idea has been discussed by some of the leading developers... but for the CR engine I think there are flaws. When digging straight down, material chunks are spawned too high above the earth and explode. If you were to implement this in OC, the Earth Chunk you can find in Scenario & Object Development doesn't do this, simply because it's bigger and doesn't have enough speed when it hits the earth. Also, the Earth Chunk I made does explode in the exact amount of material dug. Art wise, it needs to be redone, though.

To make this all work the way you suggested,you'll also have to change Dig2ObjectRequest=1 to 0 in all the earth materials (ie earth, sand, ash, snow...etc) . This would make Earth Chunks (and other respective material chunks) always appear.
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Parent - By Newton [es] Date 2009-08-13 00:37
The technical side is not the issue.
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Parent - - By Anonymous [ca] Date 2009-08-18 07:28
Thinking about this, perhaps it would be possible to brace the tunnels you want to keep with struts and etc, while removing unwanted tunnels struts and allowing them to cave in.s
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Parent - - By Ringwaul [ca] Date 2009-08-18 23:40
Technically, the caves wouldn't be caving in; just turning the landscape into earth chunks. Then you'll likely have to carry them to the surface to throw away.
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Parent - - By Asmageddon [pl] Date 2009-08-23 11:20
That was my point, it would make game a bit more 'fair', as long, few hour sessions would not end with empty map. Maybe special container item, that could hold ~5 chunks at a time? Or one additional slot for chunks per mining skill level.
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Parent - - By Atomclonk [de] Date 2009-08-23 14:51
Miningskill... a bag, that grows per mining skill?
At this point, I would have a new idea: an material burner, which is so hot, it even turns earth chunks into smoke. :D

PS: Ich think, it would be nice too, if lava corrodes smooth materials and turn them into more lava. :O
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Parent - By Ringwaul [ca] Date 2009-08-24 10:26
Maybe the lava should smelt surrounding earth into rock? And for other materials like iron and gold, it could melt it into a a liquid form. I think its odd that lava would corrode other materials to lava, as volcanos in the real world can shape mountains, but a corroding lava would destroy them.

But Clonk really isn't real life anyways. Maybe make a test file to see how it works?
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Parent - - By Asmageddon [pl] Date 2010-01-12 18:33
Ok, sorry for replying to so old subject, but I think, that we should re-consider this again. I'm a n00b at Clonk scripting, and I don't know if it can be made by scripting, but just for trial - we could add a variable, that controls amount of material dug out with explosion/digging, amount would be from 0 to 100%
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Parent - - By Ringwaul [ca] Date 2010-01-15 03:23
Earth chunks in OC already form into roughly the same amount of pixels that you have dug out (though digging doesn't normally create earth-chunks atm). Using a variable to control this seems... unnecessary. Just tweak the amount until it's correct.
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Parent - - By Asmageddon [pl] Date 2010-01-15 14:23
but its not same amount when dug out by explosion
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Parent - By Anonymous [us] Date 2010-01-15 20:11
Ringwaul: Explosions probably shouldn't follow the conservation on matter rule. If you're digging in a cave, you expect an explosion to quickly clear earth, not just move it around.

For some reason the school is banning this topic's URL, so I had to post as anonymous. >:(
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Up Topic General / Feedback and Ideas / Replenishing Earth
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