![[de]](/mwf/flags/de.png "Germany")
Like everyone know, in the earth of CR you can find materials such as gold, rock, ore or crystal. This system could be extended. I would propose, that it is possible to find copper (Cu). This copper could be a cheaper and worse alternative to metal. It could be used in technical equipment and maschines, such as electronical motors. Copper could also be used for Linekits. And it could be used for buildings for example for the powerplant. I could also imagine a use for building weapons.
>This copper could be a cheaper and worse alternative to metal.
copper is metal. :P
I like your idea. For the melting of this metal, the foundry works faster as on other metals.
Mh, but what are the effects on gamplay? Are you only proposing it because it would be more "realistic" or would it really be more fun to the player if he had to care about another ressource?
The idea of having materials with differing strength is interesting, I think, but it might be to complex. We already have it for some objects (huts/castles, flints) and materials(rock/granite),
"Okay, this is a 60% stone, when you take 5 of them and build a cabin, you'll get a 60% cabin." or "Okay, you took weak wood for your blimp, but a motor of strong metal, thus your blimp is fast but weak." Sounds kinda interesting, doesn't it, but much too complex for a melee.
"Okay, this is a 60% stone, when you take 5 of them and build a cabin, you'll get a 60% cabin." or "Okay, you took weak wood for your blimp, but a motor of strong metal, thus your blimp is fast but weak." Sounds kinda interesting, doesn't it, but much too complex for a melee.
In melees' most bases are from beginning on fully equiped. So the Scenariodesigner sets the specifications. In a Race it could be a fast and weak blimp, so that you need to restart if you fly versus something.
I could imagine to different game modes you can switch between. A simple material mode could be used for fast rounds like a melee, for tutorial or even a beginner mode where more and more stuff is introduced to new players. A complex material mode would fit perfect for settlement rounds or maybe even for a long melee.
![[se]](/mwf/flags/se.png "Sweden")
I really like the idea. Adding different properties on materials that affects the constructed result seems very cool. Rotten wood would be bad, ebenholtz strong (etc). Also then a more flexible geology system could be added without adding too much complexity to the game, since all metals would do as construction material instead of "metal". I really hate the old clonks construction engine when it is completely solid defined what stuff are made of. Irl you don't need this much wood/that much rock for a house. You can built it with whatever and then get different results. =)
Implementing this would be cool. But it should not matter way too much, Noobs should still be able to grab random stuff lying around and construct a house without needing to learn 10 materials properties.
Implementing this would be cool. But it should not matter way too much, Noobs should still be able to grab random stuff lying around and construct a house without needing to learn 10 materials properties.
![[fi]](/mwf/flags/fi.png "Finland")
Well in settlement scenarios it would be more fun to have more materials to use. In "normal" settlement rounds, you only need to get gold and some ore for metal. But if it is necessary, copper could be used for linekits. So before you can use %s with energy, you need to get copper for a linekit.
But is it really more fun or is it just another annoying thing the player has to care about? One has to be very careful with those things
imo a more complex resource system for settlement scenarios will be a lot more fun. I know it will be a lot harder on new players thou.Therefore I suggest something else entirely (but inspired by the %-discussion in another branch):
As said, building powerlines will need Metal. Mining "metal" from the ground will give you an ore as it is now. In reality your ore might be 80% dirt, 10% iron and 10% copper. You melt that down and get one metal bar. Use that to build a powerline. done. you got yourself a powerline that is 50% iron 50% copper. It will work, but capacity will be lower than a 100% copper wire. A new player will not know of this at all thou. The whole process was the same as before. The wire will still work.
A player that knows the system can check the ore, split it into it's different substances and will have sth like 2xOre -> 1 iron + 1 copper. How this should be done (Additional buildings? Abilities in some menu? Tools? Furnace-options?) I don't really know. But I think a lot of things could be implemented like this (old crappy tree wood vs strong wood, steel vs iron, stone vs granite vs sandstone).
And as said before... for melees the world and resources can be set up for fairness and simplicity.
I like this idea! But I thing it shouldnt be as difficult. You could just make good and bad ore. The better the ore is, the better the forged weapons or linekits or whatever are. And you can see on the colour of the material how good it is. A darker colour means worser Ore/Sulphur/Cole...
Noobs would not even realize this and professional players could look for the best ore, to make the most powerful swords with it :)
Noobs would not even realize this and professional players could look for the best ore, to make the most powerful swords with it :)
Clonk isn't a roleplaying game... You will get killed, and then, all your searching is worthless. Forget such stuff for normal melees.
No, not really. In a traditional base melee e.g. your enemy will get this weapon... or you can look for it again. I though of somethign like this too:
1-100 quality of material. (absolutely random)
And then the proper coloring.
Especial for settlements, when you get a high grade chunk of gold, you have one of the "yay"-moments. :D
Better/Worse metal -> longer-shorter metalbridge.
Every time, an item gets crafted, it's grade is calcuated by intersection.
1-100 quality of material. (absolutely random)
And then the proper coloring.
Especial for settlements, when you get a high grade chunk of gold, you have one of the "yay"-moments. :D
Better/Worse metal -> longer-shorter metalbridge.
Every time, an item gets crafted, it's grade is calcuated by intersection.
>Especial for settlements, when you get a high grade chunk of gold, you have one of the "yay"-moments. :D
And when you have bad luck and only get 30% to 40% ore, you have one of the "ah, screw this game" moments (especially in melees) and do not want to play this ever again
No, actually not. That does not make one single game use the full variance of clonkstuff but only enables players to "cheat" making the game easier. Sure, we can say, "hey, lets build a totally unbalanced game and just give the player possibilities to cheat money, so that they feel like the game was easy." But these players will never be able to play online freely, because they could never configure the game to be "fun" for everyone.Just to add configuration options to the game does not mean that we should not make the standard game a "good" one as well
![[es]](/mwf/flags/es.png "Spain")
Well said.
Well make those Player better in Settlement so that they do not need any cheats is the sense of an good tutorial/guide
What if different materials gave different bonuses so that there wouldn't be materials that are utter shit and a material that's hands down the best.
Still. I would rather like that you could combine existing materials in order to get better stuff. You could for example put ore and crystal together to produce a good conducting material - instead of adding another material (copper). And we are not bound to logic - so you could do some weird stuff with acid or lava as well
![[lv]](/mwf/flags/lv.png "Latvia")
so you're saying there is a large enough variance of resources already and we should just look for cooler products?!Even thou I wrote a text about exactly the opposite somewhere earlier in this thread... I agree now w/ you :) It will just make the game weirder prob not much more fun.
So basically everything that uses power would be able to be built with metal, or with "good conductor". If "good conductor" is used, the building/cable will be more efficient (more energy produced by windmill, less energy needed by workshop, workshop finished stuff faster...)
>so you're saying there is a large enough variance of resources already and we should just look for cooler products?!
Yupp, more or less. Instead of adding new stuff which can be used for one new thing and bloating the game, we should concentrate on giving the player new possibilities with the stuff he already has and is familiar to, while keeping the amount of ressources relatively small
PS: I don't say we shouldn't add new materials at all if there are good reasons for it. But only saying "hey, copper for wires is more realistic and better and anyways!!" is silly, in my opinion :)
![[pl]](/mwf/flags/pl.png "Poland")
In my opinion it would be best, if building materials would be listed by specified type materials amount (for example.: Hut - 5 wood), and it would be up to player if he wants to make that hut from 5xOak wood, from 5xLime wood, or any combination of them. Properties would get mixed (Lime wood have for example 60% durability, and Oak 90%, then 3xLime and 2xOak used for building would result in 72% durability hut, it would be calculated like that - Hut have 45 durability, so 72%*45=32 hp). So some people could hunt for best materials, and some could just put things that are found easiest, and have a bit worse hut. But the properties should be similliar, so people building things from cheap materials wouldn`t lose all chances to win.
Also the materials should have various parameters (including magic capacity for enchanting and loading with spells)
Example materials:
Metals:
-Copper ( 65% durability; 95% conductor; 7 value; no magic power; weight - 0.6kg )
-Silver ( 72% durability; 100% conductor; 10 value; can be loaded with spells costing in total up to 150 mana; weight - 0.7kg )
-Gold ( 78% durability; 60% conductor; 13 value; can be loaded with spells costing in total up to 220 mana; weight - 0.95kg )
-Iron ( 90% durability; 78% conductor; 6 value; no magic power; weight - 1.1kg )
-Steel ( 110% durability 80% conductor; 9 value; can be loaded with spells costing in total up to 70 mana; weight - 1kg )
Woods:
-Oak ( 90% durability; easily set on fire; 3 value; can be loaded with spells costing in total up to 130 mana; weight - 0.7kg )
-Lime ( 60% durability; easily set on fire; 2 value; can be loaded with spells costing in total up to 80 mana; weight - 0.6kg )
-Magic wood ( 79% durability; hard to set on fire; 5 value; can be loaded with spells costing in total up to 180 mana; weight - 0.4kg )
Stones:
-Granite ( 120% durability; 9 value; weight - 1.5kg )
-Sandstone ( 40% durability; 5 value; weight - 0.8kg )
-Vulcanic rock ( 90% durability; 8 value; weight - 0.7kg )
Crystals:
-Diamond ( 150% durability; 15 value; can be loaded with spells costing in total up to 500 mana; weight - 0.3kg; )
-Emerald ( 130% durability; 14 value; can be loaded with spells costing in total up to 450 mana; weight - 0.3kg; )
-Rubynus ( 130% durability; 14 value; can be loaded with spells costing in total up to 450 mana; weight - 0.3kg; )
Hope you get the idea. ^^
Also the materials should have various parameters (including magic capacity for enchanting and loading with spells)
Example materials:
Metals:
-Copper ( 65% durability; 95% conductor; 7 value; no magic power; weight - 0.6kg )
-Silver ( 72% durability; 100% conductor; 10 value; can be loaded with spells costing in total up to 150 mana; weight - 0.7kg )
-Gold ( 78% durability; 60% conductor; 13 value; can be loaded with spells costing in total up to 220 mana; weight - 0.95kg )
-Iron ( 90% durability; 78% conductor; 6 value; no magic power; weight - 1.1kg )
-Steel ( 110% durability 80% conductor; 9 value; can be loaded with spells costing in total up to 70 mana; weight - 1kg )
Woods:
-Oak ( 90% durability; easily set on fire; 3 value; can be loaded with spells costing in total up to 130 mana; weight - 0.7kg )
-Lime ( 60% durability; easily set on fire; 2 value; can be loaded with spells costing in total up to 80 mana; weight - 0.6kg )
-Magic wood ( 79% durability; hard to set on fire; 5 value; can be loaded with spells costing in total up to 180 mana; weight - 0.4kg )
Stones:
-Granite ( 120% durability; 9 value; weight - 1.5kg )
-Sandstone ( 40% durability; 5 value; weight - 0.8kg )
-Vulcanic rock ( 90% durability; 8 value; weight - 0.7kg )
Crystals:
-Diamond ( 150% durability; 15 value; can be loaded with spells costing in total up to 500 mana; weight - 0.3kg; )
-Emerald ( 130% durability; 14 value; can be loaded with spells costing in total up to 450 mana; weight - 0.3kg; )
-Rubynus ( 130% durability; 14 value; can be loaded with spells costing in total up to 450 mana; weight - 0.3kg; )
Hope you get the idea. ^^
Since you answered to one of my posts: My answer would be http://forum.openclonk.org/topic_show.pl?pid=1781#pid1781 + rest of branch :)
hmmm... I still have to agree with Zapper ;) buuut... your post just sparked an idea: so... lets say we have the material crystal... always the white sparkly stuff... now lets create multiple texture and color possibilities for crystal. red crystals, white, blue, yellow, neongreen, very sparkly, clear, misty... the possibilities and combinations are huge... Now, mining from that crystal will yield crystals with the same color and texture... getting energy from a colorful crystal will spark in the color of the crystal, building something with that crystal will add that color to a specific part of the constructed object.the same goes for wood: light wood, dark wood (ok... not many possibilities here :D)
or ore: everything from rust colored to silvery colored or freckled
or gold: bright yellow gold, extremely sparkly gold, whiteish gold
and all of these resources will make a difference in a product that they are used to produce. it will not create any advantage whatsoever, only make the game "look" more dynamic
I like your idea too, however for long settlement scenarios materials could also make some other difference than only looks, but yes - for melees your idea fits better.
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