By Anonymous ![[de]](/mwf/flags/de.png "Germany")
Date 2012-06-03 01:10
First of all, I'm not a newbie to Clonk, but to OpenClonk development. So, I (should) know C4Script quite well, though I neither played Clonk nor developed anything regarding Clonk since approximately two years now (however - developing in Clonk made me get into programming, which I really appreciate).
So, I recently found OpenClonk, played it some time and like the game so far (even though looks really unfinished). Therefore I have been looking into and reading the forums for some time now (and the documentation, FAQ etc. I have found) to get into OC development.
However, even if it would be easily possible to develop a new object and show it here in the forums (ah well, if I look at my modeling skills, it would not be so easy for me... :( ), I am missing some kind of overall concept: You could develop an object you like an hope: "Uh, hopefully they like it and put it into the game...", and maybe, if many people do so, you would get some good objects that fit into OC, but of course it is better if there's some kind of list telling the community what has to be done, what objects are missing, which Engine functionality should be added/improved etc., a design document. Well, it seems that there are some internal developers (as you see in the game info tab), but there is no (or I simply am to supid to find *cough*) document you can read and then know: "ah, that is planned, that are the ideas for [insert any], that is how the core developers think of XYZ...".
So what I want to say is that, as someone who did not follow the OC development from the beginning, it is very hard to get into OC development, because there is no central design document. There are - supposedly - many forum threads regarding the design (threads "A brief history of resources I & II" etc.), but it's hard to follow the forum to the very beginning.
So, please leave some comments on this, I would really appreciate some key design documents available to the public :)
(I hope that this text is understandable - I can understand english, but I'm bad at writing and speaking (and not only in english) - and that you understand what I wanted to say; and if, if I really were too stupid to find already existing documents I hope that you tell me how to do something useful for OC)
So, I recently found OpenClonk, played it some time and like the game so far (even though looks really unfinished). Therefore I have been looking into and reading the forums for some time now (and the documentation, FAQ etc. I have found) to get into OC development.
However, even if it would be easily possible to develop a new object and show it here in the forums (ah well, if I look at my modeling skills, it would not be so easy for me... :( ), I am missing some kind of overall concept: You could develop an object you like an hope: "Uh, hopefully they like it and put it into the game...", and maybe, if many people do so, you would get some good objects that fit into OC, but of course it is better if there's some kind of list telling the community what has to be done, what objects are missing, which Engine functionality should be added/improved etc., a design document. Well, it seems that there are some internal developers (as you see in the game info tab), but there is no (or I simply am to supid to find *cough*) document you can read and then know: "ah, that is planned, that are the ideas for [insert any], that is how the core developers think of XYZ...".
So what I want to say is that, as someone who did not follow the OC development from the beginning, it is very hard to get into OC development, because there is no central design document. There are - supposedly - many forum threads regarding the design (threads "A brief history of resources I & II" etc.), but it's hard to follow the forum to the very beginning.
So, please leave some comments on this, I would really appreciate some key design documents available to the public :)
(I hope that this text is understandable - I can understand english, but I'm bad at writing and speaking (and not only in english) - and that you understand what I wanted to say; and if, if I really were too stupid to find already existing documents I hope that you tell me how to do something useful for OC)
![[ie]](/mwf/flags/ie.png "Ireland")
The current content development, although stuck, is focused on the settlement part of Objects.ocd. Buildings, materials, production chains. Apart from that there is scarcely a great plan one could summarize for you.The settlement development has a design document. It's sticky in Scenario & Object Development, so pretty easy to find I'd guess ;) -> http://forum.openclonk.org/topic_show.pl?tid=836
I see to keep it up to date. Then we have a lot theory crafting threads. The other two stickies in S&O Dev are worth to have a look at. These are good examples where one could provide ideas and concepts. I even have a Theory Needed section in my settlement DD. The content is not as up to date as it could be but okayish. It's hard to keep trace of everything because ideas and concepts often change during the crafting process. Compiling all of it into a document will trigger a lot of maintenance work. Just asking a few things in IRC before getting on with a big concept would be better.
But I grant you, it's difficult to see how you can contribute. I mentioned a lot of places and subjects were you can leave ideas (the two threads, animals and environment, the topics from the DD) or you could even say 'Okay, I will do xyz from these concepts'.
You can do stuff for the settlement, just ask me about what is needed and what you can do (script/modelling).
Engine features are another topic. There is stuff going on, like Peter developing the new fog of war or Caesar (?) doing floating points. But these are somewhat enclosed feature things. Apart from that there is no real "the engine will need this" topic because needed engine features are often discovered when doing content development. "Oh, I will do cool object x but that would need the engine to provide me with y. Engine devs do y!". You could call Asynchronous Scripts an engine todo but that's hardly a feature a total newcomer could master.
Development is as structured as it's useful for us. To get into one need just to ask and we will gladly give any information. You did the first step ;)
(I just registered, as you may notice ^^)
uh? Why?
yeah, I've read it, but it did not look (for me) like a document like: "Hey guys, that's where to go" but like an idea which is not approved to make it in the game right now.
I will see to comment on those if I finished my thoughts on it :)
...what is the problem for newcomers, because it's hard to get the information about where the state of design/development is
Hm, but that wouldn't be quite a good idea if the concept is not fully accepted, would it(?)
*ask* (if it's stuck, it would be a good idea to work on settlement, wouldn't it?)
->"if I look at my modeling skills, it would not be so easy for me." :(
thanks for the info ^^
>The current content development, although stuck
uh? Why?
>...settlement development...design document...easy to find
yeah, I've read it, but it did not look (for me) like a document like: "Hey guys, that's where to go" but like an idea which is not approved to make it in the game right now.
>Then we have a lot theory crafting threads
I will see to comment on those if I finished my thoughts on it :)
>The content is not as up to date
...what is the problem for newcomers, because it's hard to get the information about where the state of design/development is
>'Okay, I will do xyz from these concepts'
Hm, but that wouldn't be quite a good idea if the concept is not fully accepted, would it(?)
>just ask me about what is needed and what you can do
*ask* (if it's stuck, it would be a good idea to work on settlement, wouldn't it?)
>modelling
->"if I look at my modeling skills, it would not be so easy for me." :(
>To get into one need just to ask and we will gladly give any information
thanks for the info ^^
![[at]](/mwf/flags/at.png "Austria")
>approved/accepted
We don't have a big "leader" who approves stuff. I redid and tweaked the UI and Controls in the last months. I started with it because I was unhappy with how it was, so I implemented stuff and saw if people liked it. (And if it achieved what I aimed for, of course).
In the end we have new (hopefully better) UI-Stuff now. So far nobody complained. ;)
Your best bet really is to just ask and talk with the people in IRC. They can give you feedback on ideas, or tell you if it'd be wasted work (beause it's already in, or not in for a certain reason, for example)
> uh? Why?
Lack of modellers. I desperately need people to finish the structure models. That's far more important than anyone wanting to script content.
> yeah, I've read it, but it did not look (for me) like a document like: "Hey guys, that's where to go" but like an idea which is not approved to make it in the game right now.
As boni said, there is no leader. No one to approve stuff. That's why I took upon me the task of managing the settlement content. I thought I made that very clear by writing in the DD that I'm searching for people who do exactly what is written there. Anything in there is therefore approved by me.
> ...what is the problem for newcomers, because it's hard to get the information about where the state of design/development is
I don't not say "not up to date" but "not as up to date as it could be". That doesn't mean everything there is totally outdated but there are minor changes or some available ideas about the topics. I don't want to stuff the DD with unapproved ideas so one could easily lose track of what is needed. It's better to ask me about the tasks (preferrably in IRC!) and I will then summarise some of the more consolidated things which may be useful to you. But as I said, the DD, strictly speaking, isn't outdated.
> Hm, but that wouldn't be quite a good idea if the concept is not fully accepted, would it(?)
There is no process of full acception. There is only a state in which a concept can be assumed as being useful for the game. Usually, the first shots of anything won't persist anyway. The development is a process of careful testing and improving. Nothing has to be perfect from the beginning on. However, it is certainly good if you come by in IRC and just ask if xyz is useful enough before potentially wasting your time. You will have to communicate with the team anyway. We don't want several people working isolated from everyone else and just communicating through documents.
> *ask* (if it's stuck, it would be a good idea to work on settlement, wouldn't it?)
> ->"if I look at my modeling skills, it would not be so easy for me." :(
As I said, right now we need modellers. I will think about the tasks if there's anything you could do in settlement. But the other mentioned stuff like animals (okay, again a task for modellers) or environment is probably more useful to work on right now. Or theory crafting.
>uh? Why?
We always had phases of high activity (~few months) followed by phases of lower activity (~fewer months). Sometimes they coincide with exam times at university or with holidays.
That's nothing unusual - and a phase of high activity was just over it appears :)
Usually the activity-lows are broken by a single person who starts something and pushes everyone else's motivation (and you might be just on your way to do that).
Good to hear that this low activity is normal for some time. Not that it ends like many many CR projects...
Hi!Additionally to what Clonkonaut said:
There is one task that is ideal if you want to start with OC development and want to get into C4Script again: http://forum.openclonk.org/topic_show.pl?tid=2443
It requires not much deep knowledge of other OC systems but still needs a lot of creativity. I could even create a very simple framework/starting point if you want (and that task addresses what you said earlier: the unfinished feel of OC :)
Hm, but isn't that described in this thread a "vegetation placement framework"?
What whould you do then?
What whould you do then?
>Hm, but isn't that described in this thread a "vegetation placement framework"?
Yes and no.
The framework is the smaller part (maybe 50 lines of code or so..)
The bigger part will be the creation of environmental effects (birds, frogs etc). You have to place them (where can frogs be placed? etc) and then probably give them very basic behavior (frogs jump around, birds in the background appear from time to time).
It's not a very difficult task - but a very creative one. And a task that has a big impact on the feeling of the whole game :)
Ah ok. I have some ideas regarding this framework, so I will leave a comment there as soon as I manage to make more or less understandable english out of my thoughts. And of course I would like to script some animal behaviour, but please bear in mind that I wouldn't be able to model meshes :( (well, perhaps I would be able to model a table or whatever, but I only have modeled some more or less well-looking swords and did some renderclonk animations so far, and this was years ago...)
If you think that you can express your ideas better in German, you can also open a thread in ther German part of the forum and reference the thread you're talking about ;)
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