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Up Topic General / Feedback and Ideas / Heres an idea for openclonk 2010
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- - By knight133 [us] Date 2010-12-12 17:39
This idea will work and will be good, Why not try to convert expansion-packs from clonk rage to open clonk with download-able tools.
It will work I'm sure that someone made it or not just let me know if someone did.
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Parent - - By Asmageddon [pl] Date 2010-12-12 19:35
It would be very difficult, since OpenClonk uses 3D graphics, and the engine did undergo many changes.
Writing such a converter would be even harder considering the fact that almost all expansion pack more or less rely on base Clonk Rage content, which is not present in OpenClonk.
Also, goal of the OpenClonk project is to create a new game, not to improve engine of CR.
The only thing I can say is: "If you want it, do it yourself.", and I guess that most people here will agree with me.
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Parent - - By Caesar [de] Date 2010-12-13 10:38
The base package argument is invalid, if you had such a converter, you could apply it to anything. IF you had...
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Parent - By Asmageddon [pl] Date 2010-12-13 17:50 Edited 2010-12-13 18:03
Well, but base package is much more likely to rely on more of the functionality that have been changed/removed, and thus it could make converting the base package itself much more difficult, or even impossible.

EDIT: Besides, I'm used to base packages being (at least partially)hardcoded, AND knight133 mentioned only the possibility of converting expansion packs :>
And then, we would either have to ensure that user has a valid CR key, or these packages could be illegally played by those who didn't buy CR...
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Parent - - By Luchs [de] Date 2010-12-14 18:00

>It would be very difficult, since OpenClonk uses 3D graphics


But 2d graphics are still supported, aren't they?
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Parent - - By Asmageddon [pl] Date 2010-12-14 19:39
Well, they are, but if we were only to convert the expansion packages, it would look bad with some buildings/clonks 2D and some 3D.
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Parent - - By Luchs [de] Date 2010-12-14 22:19
Yes, the 2D-buildings have antialiasing .
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Parent - - By Asmageddon [pl] Date 2010-12-15 09:25
Yeah, but they're completely different style, and, as of now it's easy to tell that the buildings are 3d models...
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Parent - - By Ringwaul [ca] Date 2010-12-15 11:08
Also factoring in the fact that converting CR mods would be totally pointless and probably would be more work getting them in a working state than finishing OpenClonk.

Seriously, if someone wants to play CR expansions they should play CR. Hence the title, 'CR Expansion'. OpenClonk is a totally different game. I think it would be for the better if we just lock this topic. This is never going to happen, and OpenClonk is not 'Clonk Rage + 1'.

This should be mentioned in the FAQ, I think.
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Parent - By Asmageddon [pl] Date 2010-12-15 12:41
Yeah, I also think so.
Also, if somebody could write some automatic detection of post content that redirects people to FAQ instead of creating a topic would be cool....
Or perhaps admins should just lock such topics after posting a link to FAQ.
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Parent - By Newton [de] Date 2010-12-15 14:45

> This should be mentioned in the FAQ, I think.


Feel free to add it. It's a wiki.
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Parent - By Newton [de] Date 2010-12-12 19:47
There is no tool like this and I am sure there will never be. OpenClonk is not backwards compatible with Clonk Rage.
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- - By knight133 [us] Date 2010-12-13 01:11
I know that there's no tool that can do that, but can somebody make the tool or an the editor with knights expansion-thing or some like that.
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Parent - By Zapper [de] Date 2010-12-13 06:23
As Newton said: That tool will probably never be made.

>knights expansion-thing


Stuff like castles will be created - I mean, what else knight-ish stuff do you want? You already got the weapons ;)
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Parent - - By AlteredARMOR [ua] Date 2010-12-13 09:31
In addition to Zappers remark:
We already have swords, shields, bows and arrows. (Will have a catapult soon). Casttles will be as well (for sure, though probably long after whole settlement concept is set).
There's been a discussion about using armor (though it is not designed yet) - and after it is done, helmet will be made as well (I personally have a concept in mind already). The dragon model is created (though will be modified) as well. There is only time before someone will want to create a horse model. And with it comes the long lance for even more interesting battles...
What else?
Some tents (like in Knights pack) are easy to do once we are done with the settlement concept. Some tools like crowns and scepters might introduce a role-playing element (for interesting scenarios). We will also have magic, dark wizards and all that kind of stuff (wait... this refers more to the Fantasy pack... anyway)
What I'm trying to tell is that OpenClonk itself offers a great possibility of creating any universe you like (without even the need for some specialized 'packs'). So do not worry - everything you loved in CR will be present in OC (thought renewed, redesigned, in one word BETTER). Just try to be patient :-)
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Parent - - By Asmageddon [pl] Date 2010-12-13 17:59

>So do not worry - everything you loved in CR will be present in OC (thought renewed, redesigned, in one word BETTER)


You're wrong, not everything will be present.
I, for example miss possibility to just hold direction key and dig 100% straight horizontal/vertical/other fixed angle tunnel. This is much harder with mouse, and keeping all your tunnels the same angle is nearly impossible...
Also, I actually preferred 2D buildings to 3D ones(especially since they could have been built layer-by-layer ( a rough example: http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr348/Asmageddon/Construction.jpg ) )
And then there is music from CR, which I personally hate, but my friend loves it.

I'd rather say that OpenClonk is similar to CR, generally better, but mainly just different. :>
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Parent - - By Zapper [de] Date 2010-12-13 18:14

>Also, I actually preferred 2D buildings to 3D ones(especially since they could have been built layer-by-layer ( a rough example: http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr348/Asmageddon/Construction.jpg ) )


How is that not possible in 3D? Just clip the model where you want the edge.
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Parent - - By Asmageddon [pl] Date 2010-12-13 18:50
Yeah, but that's not as clean solution, and definitely more CPU-consuming.....
And creating 3 models is 'slightly' more of a hassle than creating 3 pictures...
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Parent - - By Zapper [de] Date 2010-12-13 20:28

>Yeah, but that's not as clean solution, and definitely more CPU-consuming.....


Waaait, so clipping a 2D image is a clean solution and clipping a 3D image is not? Care to explain? :)
And it is most likely not more GPU-consuming than just rendering the normal model.

>And creating 3 models is 'slightly' more of a hassle than creating 3 pictures...


Well, lately the "2D" graphics in CR were also rendered using a 3D model. So that is actually not true in most cases, too
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Parent - - By Asmageddon [pl] Date 2010-12-14 15:39

>Waaait, so clipping a 2D image is a clean solution and clipping a 3D image is not? Care to explain? :)


Sure.
Knowing that somewhere on the model are holes would really bug me, and if it was done the way one-model-over-another, it would hurt performance in case you're using VBO's(if not, it's (relatively) slow anyway), and it still wouldn't be perfect, since two of these models couldn't have exactly same-positioned faces because it would cause flickering(I assume that rendering them on separate layers wouldn't be acceptable since it would restrict possibilities a bit).
Besides, just rendering a different area of an image definitely is less CPU-consuming than looping through all polygons, removing or reshaping them and adjusting texture coordinates. That is, unless there is a GPU function that does this, but I don't know of it, and it's still a slowdown anyway.

>Well, lately the "2D" graphics in CR were also rendered using a 3D model. So that is actually not true in most cases, too


Yeah, I know, but I prefer hand-drawn stuff anyway, and to be honest I was initially hoping that OC would have everything hand-drawn(but since I'm not a skilled artist, I didn't have much to say). :p
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Parent - By Zapper [de] Date 2010-12-14 17:17

>Knowing that somewhere on the model are holes would really bug me


"Holes" in models (spots where you can see what is behind) is exactly the same as alpha transparency in 2D art.

>since two of these models couldn't have exactly same-positioned faces because it would cause flickering


No, that is not how rendering of more than one object in Clonk works. Additionally you can always have the interior model smaller than the surface - and actually the inner structure should be inside anyway.

>Besides, just rendering a different area of an image definitely is less CPU-consuming than looping through all polygons, removing or reshaping them and adjusting texture coordinates. That is, unless there is a GPU function that does this, but I don't know of it, and it's still a slowdown anyway.


Since that is one of the most important function, you can be quite sure that it is hardware-accelerated, yes.

>Yeah, I know, but I prefer hand-drawn stuff anyway, and to be honest I was initially hoping that OC would have everything hand-drawn(but since I'm not a skilled artist, I didn't have much to say). :p


Well, I kind of knew that, since all your arguments are "omg 3d sucks" ;P
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Parent - By AlteredARMOR [ua] Date 2010-12-14 08:50
When I said "everything" I mostly meant objects, buildings adn that kind of stuff (since these are the things knight123 wanted to return to OC). Sorry for ambiguity.

Other than that: yes, OpenClonk is a totally different game
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Up Topic General / Feedback and Ideas / Heres an idea for openclonk 2010
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