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It feels currently very static, way too static. Playing it feels more like playing Soldat, or some kind of 2D-Shooter / Action adventure (with the sword).
The dynamic possibilities which clonk had are gone:
-building a fast loam bridge to hide behind and shoot back with the bow.
-pressure waves through the means of explosions
-digging up stuff, collectiing, throwing, diving, jumping.
It's all there, but it's too slow to use it with the fightsystem (or too hard for me). The weapons are very fast and very strong. And this eliminates a lot of possibilities, and tactics - because if you actually think about a trap or something, you are already dead.
Another though which someone spoke out was this: With hard hits, hit and run is powerful. With weaker attacks skill and tactics rise again from the dead and dominate the game.
Also: If you see the enemy with the bow and the sword, you already know how he is playing - that was not thew case in Clonkrage. I just got killed because someone hid the fact that he was carrieng too flints not one.
Objects in the clonks hand: Backpack is really not that fast, or it's hard to learn, I don't know. For me it would feel very natural to scroll through my inventory a bit (a second pair of slots could be right above the first two which would rotate to the other 2 slots just fine), perhaps with shift+scroll or something.
I know you already discussed stuff like this, and no one needs to convince me to anything - I just wanted to write that opinion.
The dynamic possibilities which clonk had are gone:
-building a fast loam bridge to hide behind and shoot back with the bow.
-pressure waves through the means of explosions
-digging up stuff, collectiing, throwing, diving, jumping.
It's all there, but it's too slow to use it with the fightsystem (or too hard for me). The weapons are very fast and very strong. And this eliminates a lot of possibilities, and tactics - because if you actually think about a trap or something, you are already dead.
Another though which someone spoke out was this: With hard hits, hit and run is powerful. With weaker attacks skill and tactics rise again from the dead and dominate the game.
Also: If you see the enemy with the bow and the sword, you already know how he is playing - that was not thew case in Clonkrage. I just got killed because someone hid the fact that he was carrieng too flints not one.
Objects in the clonks hand: Backpack is really not that fast, or it's hard to learn, I don't know. For me it would feel very natural to scroll through my inventory a bit (a second pair of slots could be right above the first two which would rotate to the other 2 slots just fine), perhaps with shift+scroll or something.
I know you already discussed stuff like this, and no one needs to convince me to anything - I just wanted to write that opinion.
>-building a fast loam bridge to hide behind and shoot back with the bow.
I think someone even "fixed" that you can shoot through walls. I don't know whether someone reverted it already or not - but I think at least when we have more complex scenarios I wil have tol go on my mission to revert it I guess. :]
By the way, now that I think about it: One reason for the explosive stuff being so weak could be that you can control your flight while tumbling. Should we make the Clonk uncontrollable while tumbling (for testing purpose for now)?
That would also ninja-fix the issue that you can slow down your fall when you press into the direction of an adjacent wall :)
Ohh, the ninja fall :)
But I think you could also disable this "feature" by making the wall repel the Clonk for 1 or so pixel as long as he stumbles. Or at least I think so ;)
Oh wait...
There's no difference between wall and floor, is it?
But I think you could also disable this "feature" by making the wall repel the Clonk for 1 or so pixel as long as he stumbles. Or at least I think so ;)
Oh wait...
There's no difference between wall and floor, is it?
PS: What you are talking about is very close to the feeling of that one OC scenario with the gems. Forgot the name atm. But that's why I like it so much.You have to think alot about positioning and advancing - not only killing your enemy. The gems provide additional weapons and possibilities to combine with your main weapons.
> and no one needs to convince me to anything - I just wanted to write that opinion.
OK, then I just write my opinion to your opinion:
> very static, way too static. Playing it feels more like playing Soldat, or some kind of 2D-Shooter / Action adventure (with the sword).
Soldat doesn't feel static at all, actually the opposite. A Soldat is very agile as he can duck, roll, evase shots, jump and run, use different well balanced weapons for his advantage.... and so on. A clonk that can only jump and throw things in a 45° angle, that is what I call static. Did you perhaps choose the wrong word? What's the German word you meant to say?
> It's all there, but it's too slow to use it with the fightsystem (or too hard for me). The weapons are very fast and very strong. And this eliminates a lot of possibilities...
So your main complaint is that the weapons, so items that have been crafted to be useful in combat are too easy to use? That a shovel should be better than a sword because you can dig out rocks? Sorry, I don't get your point.
In settlement melees, digging out rocks, sticks and stones, that is something that you would do when you have not the means yet to actually craft any weapons (didn't find ore, didn't construct a toolshed or whatever). A melee scenario withoug good weapons is also possible: then you just don't put good weapons inside but shovels and rocks in the earth.
I think what you "miss" about CR as being so "non-static" is actually the clumsiness of the controls, the limited ability and speed of the weapons and tools and the auto-fight for it's tactical "values": Only because the clonk was much more limited in his movements and abilities, f.e. could only jump in a certain angle, the player could foresee more of his combatants moves and surprise him by ... throwing a super flint at the right moment or something. But I don't miss that at all. It's not that we eliminated these "features" in CR but built a different, more agile combat-system for OC. So yeah, of course building loam bridges fast doesn't make so much sense any more when you got a multiple-usage-loam (the shield) that actually works.
> If you see the enemy with the bow and the sword, you already know how he is playing - that was not thew case in Clonkrage.
And that is a good thing, in my opinion. So, you can act accordingly and be prepared for how he will attack you. It's a game of rock-paper-scissors: If he has a bow and a shield, you will try to get near him without getting in line of sight and strike him down with a sword. (And so on)
> I think what you "miss" about CR as being so "non-static" is actually the clumsiness of the controls, the limited ability and speed of the weapons and tools and the auto-fight for it's tactical "values": Only because the clonk was much more limited in his movements and abilities, f.e. could only jump in a certain angle, the player could foresee more of his combatants moves and surprise him by ... throwing a super flint at the right moment or something.
That is a very valid complaint though; more agility isn't always a good thing - much like a game of chess with all pieces as queens would be boring. If you're agile enough to evade most attacks theoretically, the fight is shifted more to reaction times and short-term tactical decision making, while some strategical considerations like positioning become irrelevant.
I don't say agility should be removed, but positional strategy should get a stronger emphasize through map design and/or weapons that affect position. Your example of the sword-fighter approaching the bowman without getting hit is an example of what should be in the game, but I haven't seen it yet. It really comes down to the aiming skills of the bowman and the evasion skills of the sword fighter.
>I don't say agility should be removed, but positional strategy should get a stronger emphasize through map design and/or weapons that affect position
I think I just did that (a bit) by eliminated the possibility to control your fall when you tumble. That actually makes flints/the club a whole lot stronger because you can disable the enemy for a brief moment or even fling them down a cliff.
It's weird yes, the clonks possibilities got improved. And in theory you can do a lot of more things. But in combat, I can't think of many ways to kill my oppenent now.
I'll try to explain it like this: Open Clonk is Mike Tyson, boxing has limited tactis but skill and speed matters. Clonk Rage and it's ancesters are like James Bond, he's cornered and his arms are up and he'll be shot in any moment, but there is a ladder at the stables top, with which he can distract the enemies (by ripping it down to the head of one). Or in one movie he throws money around to excite a crowd, now he can loose his persecutors...
I like James Bond.
I'll try to explain it like this: Open Clonk is Mike Tyson, boxing has limited tactis but skill and speed matters. Clonk Rage and it's ancesters are like James Bond, he's cornered and his arms are up and he'll be shot in any moment, but there is a ladder at the stables top, with which he can distract the enemies (by ripping it down to the head of one). Or in one movie he throws money around to excite a crowd, now he can loose his persecutors...
I like James Bond.
>It feels currently very static, way too static.
Same thing as with Caedes. To few explosives.
True, explosives which are egible for fighting are really missing at the moment. The firestone is only the weakest of it's kind, dynamite bars and gunpowder barrels are mining equipment.
Another Feedback: You have to actually play the game. I mean, the Clonk series, Open Clonk of course, too.
You are doing a great job developing, but seriously most of you don't play anymore. And you have lost some or more like a lot of the perspectives the players would have. You can't build a game, without knowing the perspectives of the players. I'm playing the game, and I crash my head against walls each time I dive deeper into the project. It will be very hard to achieve something with just the developers concepts and perspectives. No offense, but you have to start playing Clonk. Now! Start settling, start fighting, install GWE and play the old levels if you have to. Feel the whole thing again.
You are doing a great job developing, but seriously most of you don't play anymore. And you have lost some or more like a lot of the perspectives the players would have. You can't build a game, without knowing the perspectives of the players. I'm playing the game, and I crash my head against walls each time I dive deeper into the project. It will be very hard to achieve something with just the developers concepts and perspectives. No offense, but you have to start playing Clonk. Now! Start settling, start fighting, install GWE and play the old levels if you have to. Feel the whole thing again.
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