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Poll What's your favorite track from the first demo-set? (Closed)
The Spelunker 3 38%
Dim Lighted Cavern 0 0%
Return of the Backpacker 1 13%
Nightwalk 2 25%
Finding Shelter 2 25%
Volcanic Flow 0 0%
- - By ala [de] Date 2014-05-24 21:02 Edited 2015-08-09 18:27
I'm finished, read more below.

----

The ones who were following my German blog should already know. I've finished composition, arrangement and orchestration of the first set of tracks. In terms of sound I'm still lacking, but this not my aim for now.

The 6 tracks are:
The Spelunker (underground, theme for caves and exploration)
Dim Lighted Cavern (underground, theme for caves and exploration)
Return of the Backpacker (upper world, intended for mountain turned out different, maybe as a theme "away" from base)
Nightwalk (upper world, theme for nights and sunrise)
Finding Shelter (underground, theme for snow / winter)
Volcanic Flow (underground, theme for danger / lava)

My "big idea" is to have music for different areas of the games, which could be script triggered :).

So now with the first set finished, I think you should all have an idea of what I'm aiming for. And you have the chance to influence the project with feedback :)- I'll be awaiting reactions, criticism is very welcome. Ah also I'll make a quick survey :)

*Download*
Parent - - By Nandelus [il] Date 2014-05-25 09:28 Edited 2014-05-25 09:34
These are very good, I like the so many different influences.
Definitely hearing the classical and jazz background combined with retro video game ambience. some of these remind me of good times playing snes games in the 90's. I'm also reminded of the music in clonk endeavour and rage, in a good way.

I do think though, and this isn't really criticism; you've said yourself that sound isn't your focus, but you could probably reach better results mixing wise by using some equalizers and other effects. an eq here and a reverb there would make those more lively,
other instruments than soundfonts could be nice also..
Remember that this isn't just composition, but production also.

something else to be aware of is dynamics, which is an important part of a composition!
for example, in return of the backpacker, the piano part's lack sensetivity (in the beginning mostly)
this comes obviously to midi editing which I don't think is your focus right now, so it doesn't matter that much. these kind of things evolve over time. a slight chage here and a slight change there..

Mostly I can see how much effort you put into composition. though I can't offer an opinion without analyzing, all I can tell you right now is I like it.
Looking forward to hearing those tracks becoming concrete and complete, good job:)
Reply
Parent - By ala [de] Date 2014-07-07 18:36

>Remember that this isn't just composition, but production also.
>this comes obviously to midi editing which I don't think is your focus right now, so it doesn't matter that much. these kind of things evolve over time. a slight chage here and a slight change there..
>Looking forward to hearing those tracks becoming concrete and complete, good job:)


I expect this phase to go a lot longer than the composition phase. I'll try to do a lot with recordings and get some people playing, I have more experience with audio editing than with midi (also no great libraries), also still having trouble playing with my hands - so we'll have to see how this goes.

Now with summer break coming I can get some people to play my music, I'll keep you updated on how this is going.
Parent - - By Maikel Date 2014-05-26 21:29
Still have to listen to them ingame, so my feedback will come later.

But from a first listening round without being ingame this project seems very promising, at least for settlement and adventure rounds. It seems less suited for melee and hectic gameplay though.
Parent - - By Maikel Date 2014-05-31 09:31
As I said before it would be great to have these songs for settlement play, or even a future large adventure.

The distribution can take place via an external package which updates the Music.ocg file to also contain your songs, that way our project still remains open source and you can have the full rights for the music. This however makes it harder to make the music scene dependent, that is having mountain songs when you are on an icy peak and have cave songs when you are underground. Maybe someone has a solution for that? (Maybe a rule which kills the existing music and takes over control when it is present.) Btw, an adventure pack can always be developed on github under a different license and use your music. I think people will be more willing to get your music when it comes with a scenario pack, rather than a single download add-on. People are lazy after all.

Also still I prefer K-Pone's music for melee, since it is more up-tempo and fits better, also melee rounds don't really need scene dependent music in my opinion.
Parent - By ala [de] Date 2014-07-07 18:28

>The distribution can take place via an external package which updates the Music.ocg file to also contain your songs, that way our project still remains open source and you can have the full rights for the music.


How about those c4u Updaters which were used for Clonk Rage and just configured everything automatically?

>This however makes it harder to make the music scene dependent, that is having mountain songs when you are on an icy peak and have cave songs when you are underground.


Dunno if this is still relevant as the Triggering/Music Manager thread already has some discussion on this.

The problem you mention goes like this: All scenarios would have to react to the music existing, and could only play files that are present. And they don't know which files would fit where.
Solution: Icy peak tries not to select a song, but rather a category. And the category script gives a song from the song list, if this changes only the song list needs changing not the scenarios.
Parent - - By Sven2 [de] Date 2014-12-07 20:07
Music fading is in the latest engine and an ambience object to determine the current state is in the Experimental.ocd folder. We now need a map to test it on and music in .ogg format with the following tags in the comment field (multiple tags separated by semicolons).

underwater - if clonk swims underwater
city - if buildings are around the clonk
lava - if lava is near the clonk
underground - if there is no sky above or at clonk
mountains - if lots of rock/granite/ore/gold is around the clonk
snow - if it's snowing around the clonk
night - if it's night time
overground - fallback if all other checks fail

The current environment is determined top to bottom. E.g. if you're underwater and in a city, it will play as underwater.
Parent - By ala [de] Date 2014-12-07 21:35
Uploaded :)

I added a txt which explains which tracks use which tags currently.
Parent - - By Newton [de] Date 2014-12-07 23:48
Comment field? Does OGG not allow for custom fields to be created?
Parent - By Sven2 [de] Date 2014-12-08 00:52
It does. But I checked Audacity and COMMENTS was one of the standard fields available. So I thought it would have the best support from audio editors.

Anyway, it seems to be not so well-defined. It is named COMMENT (not COMMENTS) in ala's export.
- - By ala [de] Date 2014-07-03 20:38
To keep you updated, I'm on it again. From the second segment (6 tracks again) 2 are finished and 2 are in making. You can keep track in the German blog, especially the start post.
Parent - By ala [de] Date 2014-07-09 13:26
Another Update:
Both tracks finished. One more is in the making - I'm now on 10 tracks, and 30 minutes total playing time. All 4 tracks from the second package are in the start post of the German blog.
Parent - By Pyrit Date 2014-07-09 21:51
Go ala, go ala!! \o/ o// \\o /o/ \o\
Parent - By ala [de] Date 2014-07-11 18:47
Finished composing Track Nr. 11 - Whispering Waters.
Parent - - By ala [de] Date 2014-07-15 23:56 Edited 2014-07-16 00:00
Not really 100% satisfied with the last 3 compositions, but it's overtime for production. So I finished the second segment of tracks (Interesting, took me 6 weeks - just like the first segment).

I'll start doing studio work to finally get a good sound for the whole soundtrack, starting tomorrow. This step will probably take several months to finish, I'll keep you posted on how it goes.
Parent - - By Matthias [de] Date 2014-07-16 08:46
"Studio Work" means you'll play the instruments live yourself?
Reply
Parent - - By ala [de] Date 2014-07-16 10:37
Basically, playing and recording instruments, and simulating real instruments with a keyboard. Also Editing and Mixing, and the last point will be mastering.

But well, sadly my hands are still messed up. So I won't be able to play much myself. My actual plan is therefore to let other people play, and record them :)
Parent - - By PeterW [de] Date 2014-07-18 18:38
Well, could we help with that part? My (electrical) piano just arrived, so I could now probably make some decent-sounding piano tracks with that. Not sure whether the other samples are any good though.
Parent - - By ala [de] Date 2014-07-19 13:23
Sounds awesome but it depends. From the level of difficulty most parts are rather simple.
Do you have a good recording device? - I could make a version without piano to play along with for the recording.
Attachment: TheSpelunker-Piano.pdf - Piano Sheet for playing along (29k)
Parent - - By PeterW [de] Date 2014-07-24 16:11 Edited 2014-07-24 16:13
Yeah, that's easy enough. We have a proper external "Teufel" sound card here, which I suppose is slightly better than leaving A/D to a laptop. Will probably hook it up tomorrow. Theoretically there is also some sort of USB connection, but I think you can "only" get the MIDI from that.

And yes - context generally makes it easier. On the other hand, the Spelunker part is relatively solo-y anyway, so I can probably just do it with a metronome. And hm, the MP3 sounds like there is supposed to be an arpeggio on the first chord? Careful about encouraging me there... ;)
Parent - - By ala [de] Date 2014-07-28 16:10 Edited 2014-07-28 16:20

>Yeah, that's easy enough. We have a proper external "Teufel" sound card here, which I suppose is slightly better than leaving A/D to a laptop. Will probably hook it up tomorrow.


Awesome, direct line input I assume? For our purpose this may even be better than wiht microphones, since we won't capture reverb and surroundings.
You can use Audacity for recording: You can add the Mp3 there - and probably also a click track (metronome), and record your output signal while you play :) -  if it's finished I'd need a wav file (can be exported via audacity).

I made a small package with versions without piano and notation. The two pieces included are also scheduled for recording flute and bass Guitar too.

Hm, one important thing: Use no reverb for the recordings, I'll add this later in the production. Actually currently the whole Spelunker track is without reverb :)

I'm curious how it will sound :)

Files: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/34602860/Peter%20Package.zip
Parent - - By PeterW [de] Date 2014-07-30 11:53
Hm. Turns out that thing is less good than I thought - only has a microphone input, which (of course) is mono. I also lack the proper cable to use the line outputs. So here's the result of going headphone-to-Macbook-input instead:

http://www.personal.leeds.ac.uk/~scpmw/Spelunker-1.flac

FLAC should be okay as well, right? And yeah, reverb should be disabled (even though it keeps re-enabling it). I am using the metronome of my piano - no idea how to get a click track from that.
Parent - - By ala [de] Date 2014-07-30 14:07 Edited 2014-07-30 14:19
Cool, thanks a lot - let's see:

> Turns out that thing is less good than I thought - only has a microphone input, which (of course) is mono.


So, the external Soundcard has only one input? That's rare, they usually have two, to record stereo. Well if we only have one, than a room microphone probably is best. But than again, for the spelunker track it's probably not the right choice. But maybe for other tracks.

>I also lack the proper cable to use the line outputs.


So you mean, there are line outputs after all? They would be better suited for our purpose - they get a direct signal out of the keyboard, which will sound a bit harder than your are used to because there will be absolutely no reverb on them. But this will give me the power to do this digitally :)
You can get line cables at almost any music store. They are relatively cheap, costing only a few bugs.

>FLAC should be okay as well, right?


In principal, FLAC is a pretty good format - which has the power to reconstruct the wav without any losses. I never have done that though, will have to check how that works. Ah, I forgot you use a MAC, so of course there are no wavs, the MAC variant for uncompressed audio is aiff (.aif) - this would be my preferred choice, if it's possible :).

>I am using the metronome of my piano - no idea how to get a click track from that.


Well, a clicktrack is a metronome. You can get this out of Audacity by choosing in the top menu "Generate" and "Click Track", there you would be able to sync this with the Spelunker Audio file (if they both start at 0:0 they should be in sync automaticall) - which you can also run in Audacity, and you can also record at the same time. So you would have all 3 tracks in one window, and could easily check if you are right on track :) - I don't need the click track, it's just for you - but a metronome works as well, but it's hard to start the play along track and the metronome at the same time manually if you have to click or push buttons.

> reverb should be disabled (even though it keeps re-enabling it)


Yes, this is very important - note however that there is a lot of reverb on the recording. But this is pretty normal, if you do a recording through a room.  The line-method would create no-reverb, which would be the best case (since I plan to create a own reverb setting, since it's for a cave music).

>headphone-to-Macbook-input instead


So, ok - there should be nothing wrong with the Mac Input I believe. However which microphone do you use? I'll add 3 screenshots, your recording has a more narrow frequency spectrum than I expected. Picture one is the spectrum from your recording, picture two is from a piano recording I made last year - with professional microphones. And picture 3 is a sample library which comes out of the computer. Just for comparison, so probably the Line-Recording method would also give us something from that.

>playing


Ok, so you use a lot of Pedal. Note, that it's a funky passage - so the focus should lie on rhythm, and this is I think usually done by using less pedal to get more attack on the notes (especially in the chords - the arppegio passages of course use more pedal to connect them). So try to focus on rhythm, also the second chord in a bar (the first two chords usually repeat) you usually play a tiny bit too soon.
Attachment: Piano_1_PeterW.png (53k)
Attachment: Piano_2_ArtEZ.png (41k)
Attachment: Piano_3_Sampled.png (38k)
Parent - - By PeterW [de] Date 2014-07-30 14:42

> Ah, I forgot you use a MAC


Well, I installed Audacity, so I can produce WAV as well. Was just concerned about putting uncompressed data on my Uni account :)

> However which microphone do you use?


Hm? I just plugged the headphone output into the input of the Mac.

> Narrow spectrum


So you're missing high frequencies?

> Ok, so you use a lot of Pedal.


Unfortunately I only have a binary on/off pedal at the moment - trying to fix that. According to the manual there is a way I can reduce the depth, I'll check.

> So try to focus on rhythm, also the second chord in a bar (the first two chords usually repeat) you usually play a tiny bit too soon.


Okay - my reasoning was that it was the end of the piece, so I'd better play a bit more mellow. I'll try to liven it up a bit.
Parent - - By ala [de] Date 2014-07-30 16:29

>Hm? I just plugged the headphone output into the input of the Mac.


Oh, I actually never thought of that. Dunno if there is something wrong with that.

Also interesting :) - so my impression of having heard a lot of reverb, must have been all the pedal? Seems like I have been neglecting production for a bit too long and my ear is out of training. But this means the pedal is definitely too present.

>So you're missing high frequencies?


Was my first impression. But thinking about it, not super experienced there, maybe it's the way this piano is intended to sound.
I mean normally capturing frequencies till 10k should always be captured by most devices (and this exceeds the spectrum of a piano) - I cannot believe the sound capture would cut frequencies so low.
Parent - By PeterW [de] Date 2014-07-30 17:36 Edited 2014-07-30 17:38

> my impression of having heard a lot of reverb


This is probably the "depth" setting I was talking about above - it attempts to simulate a proper grand piano interior. I'll turn it down in future.

> I cannot believe the sound capture would cut frequencies so low.


Hm, it seems to be true though. Using the Teufel sound card I get lots of higher frequencies. But on the other hand quite a bit of noise as well. Hm. Might all be less suitable than I had hoped :)
Parent - - By PeterW [de] Date 2014-07-30 12:29 Edited 2014-07-30 12:32
Hm, do you want that second track with "electrical" piano samples? I think it sounds best just with normal piano.

Also: Oh crap, G#. Let me re-record that.
Parent - - By ala [de] Date 2014-07-30 14:14

>Hm, do you want that second track with "electrical" piano samples? I think it sounds best just with normal piano.


In principal the composition is for underwater, where artificial sound is wanted to add to the alien expression. Yet, I don't know your sound-bank - so not 100% clear if I should insist on that.

>Also: Oh crap, G#. Let me re-record that.


Yes I noticed, but it had a interesting color too it :) - but this also shows you have not played along the instrument track - if you would hear the flute and the drums play along, I think it would probably have a better feel to it.
Parent - - By PeterW [de] Date 2014-07-30 17:31 Edited 2014-07-30 17:33

> Yet, I don't know your sound-bank - so not 100% clear if I should insist on that.


Well, and I don't know quite what you have in mind :)

In my opinion all organ-like samples do not work (note-off too noticeable), and it probably shouldn't be too "brilliant" either. Here's using the most "mellow" setting I can find:

http://www.personal.leeds.ac.uk/~scpmw/Pearl%20Diving.flac

The tempo is a bit wonky here - according to Audacity it is more 45.3 than 45? Had quite a bit of trouble starting the whole thing in sync. Second chord is still off (got distracted). Also I'll need to practice the end a bit. To be fair, that riterdando is evil :)
Parent - - By ala [de] Date 2014-07-30 18:09

>Here's using the most "mellow" setting I can find:


Hm the patch sounds not too great (clearly hearing the synth-basis), but the direction is right: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEgnPDwulM8#t=3m - always liked a sound like this, kind of a mix between a bell, jazz guitar and a piano :)

>The tempo is a bit wonky here - according to Audacity it is more 45.3 than 45?


Maybe has something to do with the dotted-note tempo? Since the 6/8 pulse is conducted in 2 sets (123 456). So for 4/4.. hm what would it be.

I think Tempo 60?
Like
6/8 = 45 -> 12/8 -> 90
/3 *2 for 8/8 -> 60.

Dunno, I hate math, I create a session in the production program tomorrow. There it should show accurate.
Parent - By PeterW [de] Date 2014-07-30 20:00 Edited 2014-07-30 20:04
Well, it's the best I could do outside of crazy post-processing. I might try to produce MIDI data instead, but I'm not quite sure this part needs a "human" performance in the first place, to be honest...
- By Pyrit Date 2014-07-11 19:25
How will the music be implemented into the game again? I think I've read somewhere it'll be downloadable seperately from the game. Will it be a downloadable Music.ocg wich you have to overwrite the old Music.ocg with? And what will happen to K-Pones tracks? Will they be included in the download package?
- - By ala [de] Date 2014-11-19 21:07 Edited 2014-11-19 21:10
I'm now on Soundcloud. Feel free to join, I'll keep it updated and add stuff from time to time. Will also feature some Non-Open Clonk compositions, also with the characteristic of midi-sounds - my hands are still in bad shape, so no change there.
Parent - - By Maikel Date 2014-11-19 21:56
Cool, if you want I can make some advertisement on our Blog, maybe in connection with a discussion for the proposed music system.

Or maybe Sven can do that and add some details about the system.

P.S. Sorry to hear about your hands, that must be very frustrating.
Parent - By ala [de] Date 2014-11-19 23:38
Promotion is appreciated :) - but Feedback (which really has been very sparse) would be even better. But maybe this will come once the system will be implemented.

The plan is to still add 4 more tracks to reach the original aim of 18 tracks (haven't worked on them the past two months, had a different project - put I'll pick it up again in december), and also I wanted to polish / update every track at the end.

With the current approach sound quality is of course a problem, if everything is set maybe I can get a producer to join the project at that state.
Parent - - By Newton [de] Date 2014-11-19 23:33
I do yoga once-twice a week and have no problems ever since.
Parent - - By ala [de] Date 2014-11-19 23:41
Glad to hear that :) - I tried swimming once-twice a week for 2 months, but by now I stopped again. Could be worth another try.
Parent - By Anonymous [de] Date 2014-11-20 10:30
Did this also 2 years ago. But it was much less effective. Also too much breast stroking (Brustschwimmen) is actually not good for the back.
Reply
Parent - By ala [de] Date 2014-11-27 15:28

>I'll keep it updated and add stuff from time to time


Added two "non-clonk" tracks today. Hope you'll check them out :)
Parent - - By Maikel Date 2015-01-02 09:57
Hi ala,

I know your music is not freely licensed, but Sven, Newton and I made a video of the lights branch and by chance (12/15 songs in my OC version are yours) your song played. Yesterday when uploading the video I forgot about the rights of your song. I hope it is okay for you that your song appears this way on youtube.

I have added a link to your soundcloud page.
Parent - - By ala [de] Date 2015-01-02 10:08

>I hope it is okay for you that your song appears this way on youtube.


Sure, no problem. You can use all tracks from the project on youtube. There would have been a lava track, that maybe was more suiting. Well, guess the atmosphere script is not working that well right now - but the light looked impressive.

>I have added a link to your soundcloud page.


Thanks :)
Parent - - By Maikel Date 2015-01-02 10:10
Yes I messed up with the music, since I did not really think about that. I should have manually started the Lava song.

I saw that not all songs are yet on Soundcloud, are you planning to add all of them?
Parent - By ala [de] Date 2015-01-30 13:04

>I saw that not all songs are yet on Soundcloud, are you planning to add all of them?


No but I'll add a few more once in a while, don't have much listeners anyway, and all tracks after the first 7 should receive major overhaul anyway once I find the time (currently I'm rather busy).
- - By ala [de] Date 2015-06-26 05:51
To keep you updated, I started a different project in September last year, and composed for this till around February. A 3 month break followed, and now I'm working on OC Soundtrack again. I'm currently working on the last two tracks, the rest is finished already. Both tracks are about halfway through with around 1 minute something arranged of 3.

I plan to finish end of Juli at the latest, also a couple of small guitar pieces I wrote will be added to the soundtrack soon. The total track amount is: 20 tracks (18 finished), and around 1 hour of music.

---

Implementation:
I simplified the categorization and divide the whole soundtrack in: Day time music, night time music, underground/exploration music and underwater music. The engine implementation should be simpler with this, and the transition smoother. If someone picks up working on this with me (Sven2?), the whole project can be released in OC 7 already.
Parent - - By ala [de] Date 2015-06-26 06:02
One thing which needs to be addressed: I have contacts with music producers and will talk to them about production (=getting the instruments to sound real). They are not very likely to work for free, so this will need some funding. I think it is therefore a good idea to implement everything rather sooner than later, so everybody can get a picture of the project ingame and decide for themselves if this step is worth money or not.
Parent - - By PeterW [gb] Date 2015-06-26 11:25
Btw - tell me if you want me to try playing stuff again. It's just that after the last move I'd need to shop a bit to hook up the recording... So if you have better options, that would seem like a bit of a waste. On the other hand, this time I'd actually practice a bit, promise ;)
Parent - - By ala [de] Date 2015-06-26 13:34
Thanks, but I have very bad experience with recording hobby musicians. Most of the people I recorded were very unreliable and if they produced recordings they were full of mistakes. It's just a ton of work for me, for which people usually don't show the dedication you would expect. This was also true last summer were my bassist and flute player didn't manage and postponed recordings over and over, till I canceled. I decided to abandon the idea and leave those tasks to a producer.

But hey, if you are interested in playing some of the tunes just for fun I'm more than happy to hand out some sheets and listen to your interpretation, although for solo piano I probably have to rearrange stuff first, but that's usually quick work :)
Parent - - By PeterW [gb] Date 2015-06-26 16:04
Can't blame you. It's quite unlike playing for fun, after all. Hell, I almost got sick of the piece from practicing just that one hour for the first recording. And it *still* had that one rather obvious mistake in it. Listening to your own recordings is a pretty humbling experience, blows my mind that professional musicians just sit down and do it quasi-perfectly on command :)

Still have the Spelunker sheet flying around, playing it from time to time. Rearrangements could also be fun - if it's not too much work.
Parent - By ala [de] Date 2015-06-26 19:19

>that professional musicians just sit down and do it quasi-perfectly on command :)


In most styles, mistakes are part of the deal and can be corrected while playing. Especially in jazz or metal, you can just move up chromatically if you hit a wrong note. In classical music however you cannot do that, also the pieces are super famous so everybody and his brother knows.. probably those pieces require the most discipline.
But man do I miss practicing guitar, it was a hell of a lot of fun improving all those movements and adding new scales and such to your repertoire - but I can relate to you, as I'm now playing trombone, and I hate practicing it, probably the first 2 years are the hardest :D
- - By ala [de] Date 2015-08-09 18:25
Ok, it's done. Soundtrack finished - 20 Tracks, 57 minutes play time!

For the production process I used two libraries from Garritan: Garritan Jazz and Big Band 3 and Garritan Personal Orchestra 4.

I have to buy both in order to publish work with their sounds, they cost about 120 Dollar each. We will need some funding for this and I'm happy that during the planning some community members already promised support :). I have a paypal account, email there: david.oerther@directbox.com - thanks in advance.

Download:
Open Clonk Soundtrack

In case we don't get funding, I also made a version without commercial libraries.
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