Here I want to introduce a complete and well-thought-out concept of how the clonks can be controlled more intuitively and effective.
Controlling the clonk
The mouse was since it's introduction just a help to support controlling the clonks. It neither added more control possibilities nor strived to replace the keyboard.
So here is my concept. Till now, the mouse has been used like in Real time strategy games: Giving commands, controlling (half-AI) clonks etc. As a result, it has not been used much because Clonk is just not played like a RTS. This is a completely different use as for example in Soldat or 3D-Shooters where the mouse is used to help to control just one character. So one goal of this concept is now to change this. This is of course a decision against splitscreen players.
W, A, S, D - used for left, right and jump. To make the clonk more agile, where the clonk jumps depends on his speed, additionally you can control his direction of jumping during the jump itself like in any Jump'n'run. The clonk accelerates to a jog if A/D is hold down, however he can run faster if the keys are pressed repeatedly. This is another element from popular Jump'n'runs which would add some fun to controlling the Clonk.
The same controls are used for swimming, climbing, hangling and pushing, of course.
Mouse-Throwing - Now, throwing works with releasing the left mouse button like before but while jumping, too. Additionally, and this is the main idea in using the mouse for this: With the mouse you specify in which direction the Clonk should throw the rock. So, through this, a lot of flexibility is gained, too. Equally, if we use weapons like the crossbow, catapult, cannon or bow, the player specifies the power with which he want to shoot the projectile - the closer the mouse to the clonk the less power is used. Of course, now this only applies to certain weapons like the catapult but could be used for e.g. the bow in the future too. (See attachment 1) While the left button is hold down, a line is shown like a rubber strap which shows the direction and power.
Mouse-Digging - For digging, the mouse is used too: While the right mouse button is hold down, again a rubber strap is shown between the clonk and the mouse and the clonk digs exactly into this direction. This easies the digging a lot. Especially Newbies would often dig themselves a hole where they couldnt' get out anymore. With the mouse, this is much more straightforward. Additionally it adds flexibility and looks better as the tunnels can go into any direction.
While the clonk is grabbing something, inside a building or using a weapon, the mouse-functionality could be used for alternative fire.
S - S is used now for some more things than before to unify the controls: As before S in front of buildings to build, S in front of vehicles to grab/ungrab them, S+Leftclick to put down and additionally S while digging to produce earth chunks and S to chop trees.
A short excursion on Inventory - Why may some clonks have more than one inventory? Because of weapons (old Hazard, Knights), it's ammo and gear as much as tools (Far worlds). Another possibility would have been to create a new clonk for every different functionality like it has been done to some degree especially recently by the creation of kings, magi, sorcerer, trapper, bandit etc.. This is not so far off as for example the standard clonk has already some tools "built in" like a hammer, an axe and a shovel. Inventory and gear is still the better idea than hardcoded specialised clonks, this principle could even advanced to shovels, axes and other tools as usable equipment.
Now, the controls for inventory:
The inventory is switched through with the mousewheel (as before).
CAPS-LOCK - ...is at the right position for being the replacement for double-dig: Use. To use [Space] might suggest itself but I think some players want to assign space for jump instead of W. The same key would be of course used for vehicles and buildings.
Buildings
The last thing that has been bothering me for too long is the controls inside a building. On the lower right corner, one can see a lot of descriptions what the single keys are for which imo only add to the confusion. So, what do you want to do in a building? Basically Get/Store and Sell/buy. Since this is the one big thing you want to do in a building, it earns more than a little context menu space at the border of the screen. Have a look at the attachment 2 and 3, they should be self-explicatory. I suggest a CreateReallyBigMenu and something like a CreateExchange menu which can handle sell/buy, get/store, traders in adventures, lorries etc etc.
movement:
go/swim/climb/hangle left/right
jump
enter
build
chop tree
digging:
start/stop
dig up/down/left/right
produce earth chunks
inventory management:
throw/put down
cycle throw inventory
use inventory
use (as weapon)
vehicle control
grab/ungrab
push left/right/into building
get/put
control up/down
use (as weapon)
building control
enter/exit
get/put
buy/sell
control up/down/...
use building
crew selection
next/previous crew member
all crew members/all but this one
more
Over the time, more and more functionality has been added. This includes riding, do magic, context menu, AI control (commands), aiming (of inventory objects such as the bow) and more, depending on the object that is used.
With that much controls, it's natural that it will be complex when there are supposed to be able to play 4 players on one keyboard.
> next/previous crew member
We should really think about changing this. There are obviously people out there that are better at this than me, but I always confuse myself with this system way to much. In most cases, I want a specific Clonk - but still have to look at each one of my crew members in order to find the right one.
So, quick suggestion: Maybe we could make the number keys each map to one Clonk? Selection could be done naturally using Shift (Double-Shift for all Clonks?).
> And anyway we need keys to cycle through the clonks for ridiculous high amount of crew members. (Shift + mouse wheel? ;P)
Do we need to support ridiculously high numbers of crew members? I'm completely okay with bounding the maximum number of Clonks to 10.
Additionally to the mouse we could use the F1-F12 keys for clonks (like heroes in WC3 ;)) and the num-keys for items.
But I also think that it is just a normal fear, and not really a risk. I think that what makes clonk so wonderful and so charming for all of us is its gameplay, its freedom, its being so various and different, not its controls. Or better, people is surely used to them, but I think that not wanting to change them is just a fear of not wanting to change a game you love more than the real thought that they cant be improved.
I don't have any problems with clonk controls. I have played it for years and I never big problems.
But at the same times I show the game to at least 10 friends (at least means they are more 20 than 10), insist to them for trying well the game,but mostly all of them left the game, and, apart for 2/3 of them that didn't like the gameplay, all the rest of them was JUST for the controls.
I think there is fear for changes, as there was fear in the forum when they announced the j'n'r controls (that many still hates, but that was the only cause why didn't leave the game too). I understand the fear, i had it the same with many titles I loved in the past (tribes series most of all), but sometimes changes is good, it can improve things, it can make things more natural, it can attract more people, make the league bigger, give more additional contents and support to the game, and so on...
It is always possible to switch back to the actual system if it will be seen that the new controls don't work well...
and btw
>But I fear that it will destroy the traditional way of playing clonk, it would be too easy to play. The learning by doing, with combos and speed signalizes clonk
in my opinion difficulty doesn't have to come from controls, but from the gameplay. Controls MUST make the game as easy to play as it can be, it's the GAME that should make things difficult...
For splitscreen, I suggest adding multiple mouse support. DirectInput can do this, afaIk. But please keep in mind that gamepad users can usually not use the mouse, so we may need to provide different defaults for gamepads.
Enhanced menus were actually on the list of things to do for CR, but never made it. As a first step, we could create a very generic script interface to create dialogs (like CreateDialog, AddDialogItem, etc.). Then push menus completely into script where anyone can experiment.
Anyway, I guess we should try to make a good "standard" way of controlling first and then see how things can be adapted to the no-mouse-case.
We shouldn't make the mistake in trying to only implement with the keyboard+mouse whats possible with the gamepad. Almost every game which came out for the PC as well as the console, changed the controls a little bit more for the console than just reassign some keys.
> Mouse-Digging
Sounds good. Would like to see if the Sven2 way to dig (digging up chunks of earth to get faster upwards) still works with that.
> A short excursion on Inventory
So I got the idea of different inventory types. One for normal objects, another one for every IsWeapon-Object and so on. You need an option to switch between the different inventories. So even the knight can carry only one normal object (PeterW should like this ;) and has two additional weapon slots (and 3 ammo/arrow slots?).
> CAPS-LOCK
No caps-lock please ;) Using this key in a game everytime screws the whole chatting up. Left shift is still easy to reach when using wasd.
> So I got the idea of different inventory types. One for normal objects, another one for every IsWeapon-Object and so on. You need an option to switch between the different inventories. So even the knight can carry only one normal object (PeterW should like this ;-) and has two additional weapon slots (and 3 ammo/arrow slots?).
Why would you want to make things more complicated than they already are?
I'd rather simplify the case of carrying multiple objects: Display the selected object much larger; highlight newbly collected objects somehow, but push them into he back of the inventory.
But with different inventories you choose between three objects maximum. Or better.
For example a knight stuffed with a flint, a sword, a bow and three arrow packs. You run around, flint selected for quick throwing. When you need the bow, you pick the weapon inventory (bow is first object) and don't have to press special 1 / change inventory four times or so. That's pretty easy. By pulling out the bow the ammo inventory will be selected automatically. You choose which arrow type you want to fire by changing them (see metal & magic, but it's pretty confusing there imho).
All you need is a second inventory key, one for changing the objects in the current and one for changing the inventory.
We could think of allowing direct access to the indexed inventory on the number keys though. We may even arrange it so the numbers are fixed as long as your inventory does not change.
In my concept, the classic point-and-click-functionality of the mouse would be limited: If you can only throw and shoot by pointing the mouse into the right direction, it's very slow to click in the inventory bar first, then target your enemy again.
> All you need to do is click on the item/weapon you want to use.
So that may be fast when using a graph tablet. You need to get all the way down to the lower left and back up which isn't very fast when using a mouse. Intuitive but slow.
> We could think of allowing direct access to the indexed inventory on the number keys though.
Sounds okay.
Clicking using the mouse might be intuitive, but is way too slow. We shouldn't have stuff built-in that we have to teach newbies - only to make them forget it later because they can't use it in combat situations. Currently my personal favorite is switching with Y and C.
Two other things I consider important:
* Looking into the bottom-left corner is something the player shouldn't need to do often. I'd very much like a solution where you can see at your Clonk what he's currently using. Maybe CX-style, maybe by flashing an icon above him when switching inventory or crew.
* I really hate those kind-of-inventory type objects like arrows. They don't count towards the inventory limit (or only kind-of? I don't even know) and can't be used without an additional object. Maybe we should picture the bow as coming with a quiver, where all ammunition is added to the quiver when picked up?
> Currently my personal favorite is switching with Y and C.
What about Q and E? Easier to reach when using WASD imho ('cause y/z is a bit tricky, the standard(?) layout would enforce < as the correlating key to C)
> Looking into the bottom-left corner is something the player shouldn't need to do often
I really like the idea of the icon flashing / carrying the object in hand. We should stick to that!
> Maybe we should picture the bow as coming with a quiver, where all ammunition is added to the quiver when picked up?
Basically that's my idea with two different inventories (you just want it as a sub-inventory with no visual feedback of what's inside it?). Taking away the options to use arrows as independent objects will screw up some tactics (self tumbling / spell combos) and make the crossbow useless (okay, I didn't really like the crossbow anyway, think normal clonks should be able to use a bow - I favour a concept where no special clonks are needed anymore).
> > Currently my personal favorite is switching with Y and C.
> What about Q and E
Did everybody forget the mousewheel? When the mouse is used not just from time to time but always with the right arm, the mouse wheel is quite close to the middle finger... ;-)
> What about Q and E?
You have a point. Didn't realize they were free %)
> you just want it as a sub-inventory with no visual feedback of what's inside it?
Well, visual feedback is always another story. I actually though about showing tiny icons right besides the bow with what is currently loaded inside the quiver. The point where I'm also kind of lost is when you want to get the arrows out of the quiver. That's something Hazard never needs.
> self tumbling / spell combos
All plus points in my book ;)
>okay, I didn't really like the crossbow anyway, think normal clonks should be able to use a bow - I favour a concept where no special clonks are needed anymore
I favour that concept too, actually. The "speciality" and looks of the clonks would then be determined by their equipment, not of their type. I mentioned this in the concept too, actually.
>I really hate those kind-of-inventory type objects like arrows
Yes, the old ammunition-discussion. How about the Hazard (not Hazard Arena!) approach that you can equip the ammunition like gear after collecting it by pressing [Use]?
> Clicking using the mouse might be intuitive, but is way too slow.
I'm playing that way, because it's usually faster than keyboard switching.
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