I looked at the existing graphics and noted proportions I found good.• Roof of building is slightly above Clonk head
• Vehicle should be able to stand in front of building and building characteristic should be still visible.
• Clonk is three heads high ("cute" proportions)
• The base vehicle is as high as a Clonk to fit into tunnels.
• The basic vehicles are rectangular to fit into the mines.
The system is based on the golden section and on thirds. To find this proportions I actually looked at the existing buildings and sketched some others just from the feeling. I discovered that it somehow comes down to the golden section. As so often...
There are three sizes linked by the golden ratio:
Object base size (a)
Clonk base size (b)
Building base size (c)
There is the object size (a) which can be divided by three to get smaller sizes. For bigger objects (tools) you can take multiples of (a).
a * 1/3 would be the width of a wood beam.
a * 2 the length of a regular tool
Regular objects should fit into a rectangle. Round objects must be slightly bigger to look the same size.
To get to the Clonk base size (b) add (a) divided by 3 x golden ratio to (a).
b = a + a/(3*1,6) = a * 1,21
In the Clonk size (b) is the height of one "head". First head up to the crotch, two heads up to the shoulder/neck. Three heads: complete Clonk
A knight would be slightly taller with smaller head etc.
To get the building size (c) do same as from (a) to (b) but with full clonk height (3xb).
c = 3 * b * 1,21 = b * 3,62
(c) is the height of a building wall. Its the line where the roof starts.
Things that are 1/3 (c) are on a comfortable height for working and doing things for a Clonk.
A Clonk is just able to look over something that is 2/3 (c) high.
To get the width (w) of a building block divide (c) by the golden ratio. (c)/1,6
Multiples of (w) are the different basement sizes.
• One block wide buildings are smallstructures or slender towers like the windmill.
• Two blocks wide is a "normal" structure. Like a house or also the elevator and pump.
• Three blocks wide is the size of biggerbuildings like workshops.
For the interior of the buildings smaller sections are useful. A good size is 1/4 of 3*(w). Let's call it (v).
v = 3/4 * w
A door, window, chest or pole is one (v) wide. Its the typical space a Clonk needs.
A gate or place where a normaly vehicle is would be two (v) wide.
If there are big vehicles like the airship it could use three (v)-blocks.
The height of the roof from ground is 3*(v). You get an almost rectangular building for a 2*(w) building with roof.
The (w)-width is the maximum width to use for a building. Inside this space it is often better to use the (v)-width. For example the elevator is a two-(w) building but the lower part would rather be around 2*(v) wide. A vehicle can easily fit in but its still slender.
I propose this proportions not as a strict system but as a reference to know how big things could or should be. To have a general idea of scale in the game.
![[de]](/mwf/flags/de.png "Germany")
I don't think its a good idea to over-mathematize this. While the rule of thirds might provide a good starting point for design proportions, it's by no means the ultimate answer to everything it that regard. The aesthetic of the golden ratio, especially, is something taught by overzealous art teachers, but actual studies have shown that art and nature actually seldom follow that rule. It's often the case that there is some ratio "close" (but still outside the margin of a 10% error) to the golden one, and that illustations in art books often cheat to fit this exactly onto the golden ratio. >I propose this proportions not as a strict system but as a reference to know how big things could or should be. To have a general idea of scale in the game.
I know you more or less said this yourself, but I wanted to stress it again.
Using mathematics won't get you a good result automatically, but straying from the rules could produce the best. ;)
Just put the formulas in so anyone could put up their reference in case some would want to use it. If you have the blocks once you can put them somewhere and see how it relates. I use this blocks for myself while doing my drawings but more as a starting point. I think especially in 3d modeling its easy to loose a feeling of the sizes. If everything is in proportion you put it into context later and find out its way to small or something.
The more important information up there probable is that some objects must relate to each other in a certain way and sizes should be at least remotely consistent. At least for the core game content.
Right now we have a workshop and windmill that fit to a clonk in almost real life proportions (a little to the comic side), then a foundry that is way smaller with roof on crotch hight (this is more a symbol style in the way of detailed icons for buildings). Then we have an enormous Flag with rises multiple times over the clonk (also in a symbol fashion but as exaggerated iconized symbols). Trees are almost a believable size but huge too. But still smaller than the flag. Lastly we have the sawmill, which is a machine standing in the open rather than a building. If we follow that line of thought we would have a machine park more than a village. Like a saw a, metal boiler, an oven and a generator. Thats ok too but we should decide what we want...
![[ie]](/mwf/flags/ie.png "Ireland")
> If we follow that line of thought we would have a machine park more than a village.
To be sure, at some point that was the idea. Buildings are no buildings as in 'things you can enter' but machines that you use 'from the outside'. If you want shelter, you will have to construct castle walls. No concept yet therefore I call them castle walls because it was like that in CR, I don't think we want our clonks live in castles ;) Take them as a metaphor for 'combinable structure parts' to form a bigger building.
I say they are all reasonable concepts. Just decide for one.For me I liked most in Clonk the bustling villages with all the houses. Was just missing some farming....
So if its machine park I would have problems to motivate me...
The tools workshop is the only unfitting building, I am not content with it either. All other buildings don't have the 'hut' look.It is okay to design the building as 'buildings' (meaning hut) but keep in mind that such castle parts are planned. A big issue in CR's knights pack was that all buildings had to get a total redesign to fit into the castle parts - a task we want to spare us.
/e
Just to be sure: I don't want to you to stop or change your designs!
I think you are sacrificing good looking villages and good looking castles for a little less work. Can't imagine all the things standing in a castle or on the landscape. On the other hand its quite easy to use the buildings and take away the hut-partm, then you put the innards in front of a wall, finish. Its in no way a complete redesign. We fixed that by having open buildings.Take the inside of the workshop and your good. Take the saw out of the mill and its finished, roof away from the oven and you have a kitchen for the castle.
btw.: I like the workshop very much in contrast to the sawmill which as very little character for it self.
Well, removing the outer structure is a reasonable way to go :)
![[gb]](/mwf/flags/gb.png "United Kingdom")
Just to back up Fungi there a bit - I like his approach quite a bit, and not only because of the fact that it leads to proportions being coordinated with each other.
Another aspect we have to recognize is that the graphics are not made for being looked at in detail all the time. Eventually you want to have one look at the settlement and see "flag, sawmill, elevator" without a second glance. For that, we need recognizable shapes - you don't want to have to focus on whether or not something has a hammer lying around to find out whether or not it's a tool workshop.
So I'd say it's a pretty nice approach to build such a "box model" of everything in the game first. Ideally the boxes should already tell everything you need to know about the building, so the artist has all functional stuff out of the way and can focus on the fun eye candy parts.
Another aspect we have to recognize is that the graphics are not made for being looked at in detail all the time. Eventually you want to have one look at the settlement and see "flag, sawmill, elevator" without a second glance. For that, we need recognizable shapes - you don't want to have to focus on whether or not something has a hammer lying around to find out whether or not it's a tool workshop.
So I'd say it's a pretty nice approach to build such a "box model" of everything in the game first. Ideally the boxes should already tell everything you need to know about the building, so the artist has all functional stuff out of the way and can focus on the fun eye candy parts.
Oh, yes, don't get me wrong - I like that box-system and the overall approach very well, too. I just wanted to say that it's not necessary to be a 100% precise when following these formulas and that there is no "real" reason to favor some golden ratio over others ;)Edit: And yes, buildings really should have recognisable shapes. In CR, I sometimes confused derricks with elevators, at the first glance. Workshop/Research Lab/Sawmill were other candidates which just looked to much alike.
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