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Up Topic Development / Art Workshop / [Model] Airship & Ideas Concerning it's Design
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- - By Ringwaul [ca] Date 2009-08-05 04:32 Edited 2009-08-07 17:24
I found an interesting picture on google for a possible design of the airship. I'm guess we're going to have more air vehicles than  just the hot air ballon, and thought something like this would be a nice design for it, though I think the hull should be solid instead of just a wooden frame.

If people like this idea, I would happily model it (though someone else might want to do the textures... it would take me a long time to make decent ones for this).

---

Because I don't want to make another topic for this, I'm merging this into the discussion of airship design and the topic of it's model. There's no reason to seperate them.

The first design airship looks like this:

I hereby license the following file(s) under the CC-by license
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Parent - By Zapper [de] Date 2009-08-05 08:50
But if the spaceships becomes too large you will barely be able to navigate through clonk-landscapes
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Parent - - By Travis Date 2009-08-05 13:45
Why should you build this ingame instead of the little one, just because it is a little bit stronger or better looking? I think the only reason for another air vehicle would be something special about it, like you can attach a cannon or something to it. But is this really necessary?   
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Parent - - By Ringwaul [ca] Date 2009-08-05 14:40 Edited 2009-08-05 15:22
This doesn't need to be any bigger than the CR blimp; it could be the exact size as the CR blimp (as it's supposed to replace it, not add another). It's just the style I'm working on, not the exact dimensions as in the image.

As Clonkonaut said, we shouldn't just copy the CR style.
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Parent - - By Travis Date 2009-08-05 18:55
I missunderstood this,

>I'm guess we're going to have more air vehicles than  just the hot air ballon...

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Parent - By Ringwaul [ca] Date 2009-08-05 19:25
That's my fault really; I've noticed I'm not very specific about most things I say.
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Parent - - By Ape [fi] Date 2009-08-05 19:00
I think the blimp on the image is too pointy. It should be a little more balloony.
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Parent - By Ringwaul [ca] Date 2009-08-05 19:59 Edited 2009-10-07 17:50
It's less of a balloon, more a rigid dirigible. However, reshaping the helium/hydrogen balloon (whatever it's called) will be quite simple. Also, normal dirigibles probably don't fit to the Clonk style.

PS: I've got a finished model now. :D The texture I made is quite horrible, really. However, if someone else wants to make their own, I have supplied a UVMap with labels and whatnot.

I hereby license the following file(s) under the CC-by license
Attachment: AirShip1.zip (130k)
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Parent - - By Ringwaul [ca] Date 2009-08-07 04:41
I made a second concept design 3D Model. It's designed off newton's 'Sturmnatter' sketch. It's likeness to Clonk design is questionable, but it looks cool imo, and I had a lot of fun modelling it.

*531 Polys
*Only textures so far are alpha maps (if anyone knows of a free wooden plank texture that would be great)
*I don't claim to have designed this

I hereby license the following file(s) under the CC-by license
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Parent - - By Newton [es] Date 2009-08-07 11:42
You know, I didn't post the Sturmnatter for OpenClonk. I don't think it will be fun to maneuver a thing as big as this through a Clonk landscape. Especially if one wants to implement some sail-physics.
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Parent - By MimmoO Date 2009-08-07 12:57
thats always the problem of airships: they should be big, but if they are big, they are too big for clonk-landscapes. sure, you can blast through the landscape. but that is not ne sense...
another reason why i mislike this one is, that arrows wont kill it. id cant explode like a baloon!

but grat model :)
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Parent - By Ringwaul [ca] Date 2009-08-07 17:23 Edited 2009-08-08 07:25
I had guessed it wouldn't be the a very good design for OpenClonk xD Though as I said before, it was good fun to model, so no harm done. I'm thinking it's concievable size wouldn't be much of a problem, the blimp is a very small vehicle really; a vehicle about 1.5x bigger would only cause problems on maps like Sky Islands where the only ways to navigate are through nose-bleed passages. The problem lies in it's non-clonkish steampunk style, and it's inability to be popped.

I'll start working on a Clonk-esque design and see how it turns out.
Edit: I'm not having many great ideas for what the hull of the Clonky airship should look like. How does a windowless cabin with side fans sound? (something like the Hyperion's hull)
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Parent - - By Ringwaul [ca] Date 2010-02-08 06:27 Edited 2010-02-08 06:30
Another airship design I just finished. More 'clonky' this time.

I hereby license the following file(s) under the CC-by license
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Parent - By AlteredARMOR [ua] Date 2010-02-08 10:17 Edited 2010-02-08 11:34
Looks a lot like blimp from CR (though now you have borders to make sure your lorry won't fall from the sky oh, wait! Would a lorry fit there?:-). Since blimp was my favorite vehicle in CR I think I will love this one too

EDIT: I hadn't been around when you started this topic but must admit that your "first design" looks really awesome (and more in a style of OC) thought it was rejected by the community :-(
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Parent - - By Newton [de] Date 2010-02-08 13:24
The previous airship just seemed too big (for the hideous clonk landscape) but the style looked very cool. I think if you had this airship more in the style of your first one and perhaps mix some ideas/style from my balloon sketch, we'll get a fantastic looking airship here.
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Parent - - By Ringwaul [ca] Date 2010-02-08 17:16
Hmm, the first dirigible originally had a very sharp nose; like a dart. Should I try to work that in as well?
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Parent - - By Newton [de] Date 2010-02-08 17:50
You can try it at least. I meant more the Da-Vinci feel of the old model. The current looks kinda compressed and rough (not very fine, making it look very small).
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Parent - - By Ringwaul [ca] Date 2010-02-09 03:10
Hrum. I don't really know how to give it a Da-Vinci style, as I haven't seen much of his inventions. Google search for pictures didn't turn up much inspiration, either.

Anyways, I gave it fins with rudders, twin-side propellers, and a rigid, dart-shaped balloon.

I hereby license the following file(s) under the CC-by license
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Parent - By AlteredARMOR [ua] Date 2010-02-09 08:04
Nice concept. I keep thinking that tqo additional propellers (one on each side) should do the trick
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Parent - By Asmageddon [pl] Date 2010-02-09 09:26 Edited 2010-02-09 09:28
That's probably fault of perspective, but looks a bit strange imo.
Could you maybe post orthographic renders from side? [As this is how it will appear ingame I think...]

EDIT: Also the older baloon is good enough, I think you should keep that one and continue working on this one separately. I dont think all the air-vehicles in OC need to be blimp/skyship, a baloon is good as well, and these have no additional proppelers as I recall.
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Parent - - By Newton [de] Date 2010-02-09 13:07
Leave it with one propeller (remember: you will mostly see it from the side). It looks much better. Also the balloon of the previous model and it's rigging looked much better.

I'll be more specific:
Your balloon design was already good. There are only thwo things I'd like to comment about:
  1. The balloon looks very small (cp. http://forum.openclonk.org/image_show.pl?aid=10 ), it should be more ballooney. The design of your first airship has a really large balloon and a long tail so my suggestion was to make the ballon of your previous model more like that of your first design. What you did is keep the size of the previous balloon and change the shape to the first design, making it look really odd (like a cartoon rocket/bomb). Again: The balloon of the previous design looks good, I only think it should be a bit larger plus to see how it looks in the shape of the first design (with these wings at the end) would be worth a try - not saying that it will look good

  2. Fine details: I am missing some fine details which can't be part of a texture. For example (doesn't need to be everything ;-) ) a sandsack, an anchor, some rigging (c.p. the line with the flag on the balloon sketch), a flag, a rudder (however does the airship navigate?) and some yoke for the pilot.
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Parent - - By Ringwaul [ca] Date 2010-02-10 03:43
Hmm, I've made some modifications based on your suggestions. I think it looks fairly nice, but the polycount is starting to near the thousand mark. D:

I hereby license the following file(s) under the CC-by license
Attachment: airship-1.blend (238k)
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Parent - - By Newton [de] Date 2010-02-21 18:24

>Polygons


That is normal for big round objects. Don't worry about it right now, perhaps we can do some optimizations later.

The rest: See here. Otherwise it's a big improvement. Commit to resources repos?
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Parent - By Ringwaul [ca] Date 2010-02-23 04:55
Will do tonight.
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Parent - - By Ringwaul [ca] Date 2010-03-28 03:00
I've made this texture a while ago, but I always wanted to somehow improve it. I didn't have much free time to work on this lately because of real life (curse you, real life!) but I think I'll just post what I've made so far.

I hereby license the following file(s) under the CC-by license
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Parent - - By Newton [de] Date 2010-03-28 22:56
It's good for a sketch for a basic color scheme but otherwise looks bland and blurry. I also wanted to do the texture myself some time (later), I got some ideas for details on the balloon.
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Parent - - By Ringwaul [ca] Date 2010-03-28 23:58
Do you want this one to work on?
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Parent - By Newton [de] Date 2010-03-29 00:09
I'd only work on this later, after the first release (which will surely take more than one month, still). You could commit your texture to the repository
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Parent - By AlteredARMOR [ua] Date 2010-03-29 09:31
Can't resist the feeling that I'd like to see a patch (swatch?) on the balloon (on the frontal part of it). Seems like it has already become some kind of a clichee...
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Parent - By Nachtfalter [de] Date 2010-02-09 13:43
As Newton already suggest: Just give the hull of the balloon more tension. The target-impression is, that the hull is really filled with a medium, that is expanded. But the two propellers are cool ;)
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Parent - - By Asmageddon [pl] Date 2010-02-08 13:43
More clonky? :/
Guess my taste about what is "clonky" is a bit different, its nice, but... the airship imo would fit OC better. But I do not have anything against it. When it will be textured I'm sure it will fit OC well.
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Parent - - By Ringwaul [ca] Date 2010-02-08 17:17

>the airship imo would fit OC better


Which one? I've made three. :S
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Parent - - By Asmageddon [pl] Date 2010-02-08 18:27
Well, latest is more a baloon, first is blimp-ish. The most ship-ish(:P) is the second one. But all are good, and... well, nice :P
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Parent - - By TheBuilder [us] Date 2010-02-08 22:34
Y not try combining all three?
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Parent - - By Luchs [de] Date 2010-02-08 22:51
That would look weird.
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Parent - By TheBuilder [us] Date 2010-02-08 22:54
depends on how he might do that if he did
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Parent - - By Travis Date 2010-02-09 18:09
What about something like this:

http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/4011/iwanowdi.0/0_2c12b_984c7e8_L.jpg
http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/4113/iwanowdi.0/0_2c12a_c03976bd_L.jpg

With wings, propellers and a good looking steam pipe somewhere? I mean steampipes look always awesome. Of course the wings had to be smaller, for practical reasons.
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Parent - By AlteredARMOR [ua] Date 2010-02-09 18:11
Ah, Mozhaysky plane...
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Parent - By Asmageddon [pl] Date 2010-02-09 18:20
Lol, sorry, but lol. Yes, I like it, as long as it will have machine guns/cannons.
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Parent - - By Newton [de] Date 2010-02-09 18:24
Wow, steam engine airplane
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Parent - By Ringwaul [ca] Date 2010-02-09 18:28
Would be pretty awesome for melees. :D
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Parent - - By Ringwaul [ca] Date 2010-02-09 18:27
As awesome as these early planes would be, I think it would be difficult to properly implement them into clonk. It could be interesting to have the blimp as a bomber (throwing flints off the side of the gondola :D) and a plane as a fighter. Planes would need to fly at a reasonable speed in proportion to the landscape (maybe 1.7x speed of a CR blimp?), and be able to land on a short distance and not look unrealistic.
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Parent - - By B_E [de] Date 2010-02-09 18:34
Planes have never really been implemented successfully in Clonk - you just can't make it very faster than a blimp in the usual closed and open Clonk landscape - you are already used to bumping your way around, even with an agile blimp. I can't really see a future for them.
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Parent - By AlteredARMOR [ua] Date 2010-02-09 19:01
Well say it already...
...
...
...
Ok. I'll do it.
Lets implement a jetpack!!!
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Parent - - By Ringwaul [ca] Date 2010-02-09 20:08
There's always the idea of just having more 'airspace' in clonk maps; when testing different flying test-vehicles in CR I found this to be the main problem.
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Parent - - By TheBuilder [us] Date 2010-02-09 22:52
longer maps maybe? not neccesarilly taller, just longer.
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Parent - - By Ringwaul [ca] Date 2010-02-10 00:47
What would this accomplish? There would still be the problem of always crashing into terrain.
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Parent - - By TheBuilder [us] Date 2010-02-10 04:19
umm u did say more airspace, having longer maps might help, though ur right in that it would still depend on wats there in the way of terrain.
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Parent - - By Ringwaul [ca] Date 2010-02-10 04:52
By airspace, I meant more room to fly up into. You know, have some room to 'spread your wings', without having to dodge a hill every couple seconds.

Let me explain:
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Parent - By TheBuilder [us] Date 2010-02-10 06:55
lolz, well i guess an increase airspace height suggestion would have been a better suggestion, like add however many pixels of space to the top of an existing map, or somethin like that. Hmmmmmmmmmmm, might want to make it separate from the actuall map height, . . . cant . . . explain . . . really.   Sorry, it just my mind kinda drew a blank on a detailed explanation.

Nice work on the model though, keep up the good work. : )
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