OpenClonk Meeting 22nd

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Topic Development / Developer's Corner / OpenClonk Meeting 22nd - 27th May

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By Newton

Date 2013-04-03 17:41

The next OCM in Hamburg will take place on the 22nd to 27th May (Wednesday to Monday). Monday is the day of departure.

Maikel and me will be your hosts. So, who will come, too? As Maikel is not 100% sure if he can accomodate people during the CM, please tell us well in advance if you will come.

Sven2: Could you create a list of things you would like to see getting done for the next release (=until that weekend)? This way, my humble self and all the others who are currently not up-to-date with the current state of the project can prepare for the weekend. The meeting will be much more fun if most must-do stuff is already finished before the meeting so we don't have to worry about all this then but instead get creative and enjoy ourselves. Will you do that?

Otherwise, do you have any wishes and suggestions for this years' OCM? What to do, what to eat, etc.

By Zapper

Date 2013-04-03 18:37

I will most likely be able to attend. I have to sort one thing out with university but I am optimistic.

>a list of things

From my point realistic would be the menus and the next iteration of the controls stuff - the latter is something that is ideal for getting creative at on an OCM ;)

By Sven2

Date 2013-04-03 19:21 Edited 2013-05-13 18:01

Cool, big thanks for hosting the event! The time might collide with my hang gliding vacation, but at least on the weekend I should be able to join in.

Concerning stuff I would like to see get done, it's probably too much to do for a single release :)

The biggest task is probably to get new content from the experimental folder to the main folders. My idea would be to create a storyline, but I feel the surrounding content (decoration, dialogues, different Clonk types...) is just not there yet. For dialogues, I'm also still waiting for Zapper's new menus (and controls?). Additionally, the missions we have are very much disconnected from each other so it doesn't really make sense to force a common story onto them. So unless a miracle happens and someone thinks up a great and simple-to-implement storyline, I guess we will stick with a bunch of disconnected settlement missions for now. We could, of course, plan out a proper campaign that partly builds on our current content at the meeting as a goal for a future release.

I also think that not all experimental scenarios need to go into the release. It's fine if we just choose the good ones and leave the rest for later.

Since you wanted to have a list, here we go:

General:

* Select scenarios from experimental folder and turn them into proper settlement missions:
** In-game intro (even if it's just a message like in EvilCastle.ocs)
** Exit message/Epilogue (again, at least one or two messages)
** Descriptions, icons, difficulty settings, maybe better names, etc.
** Maybe chain the scenarios by MissionAccess so you have to play them in a sequence (like in CR)

* Integrate objects and materials from Experimental.ocd either in the main pack or as local scenario objects
** The stuff I used from DragonClonk's environment pack might not be ready for main objects yet? Would just keep it locally in the scenarios then.
** The wall kit might need some rounded edges for the walls so you don't get stuck in them. But generally, I think it should go to the main pack.
** Zapper's Ruby and Amethyst materials and textures are used in a number of scenarios. They could be added to the main pack

* Test all our standard scenarios and tutorials at least once. Some minor stuff is broken.

* Non-trivial object bugfixes (don't know about bugtracker entries at the moment):
** The grapple bow has some bugs (e.g. you cannot move your Clonk any more if you get into a WallJump animation) and needs some better controls. I think you should just be able to steer your Clonk freely if you are on a very short rope end. so you can properly navigate around corners. The hook should also not sometimes slip off the wall, fall into the nearest lava lake and *pull you down*! The bow is absolutely essential in my so far favourite settlement scenario (Golden Mountain) and the scenario is made unnecesserily hard because of its bugs. The grappler also needs better graphics to determine whether you shot the hook or not (for multiple grappler activity).
** Interaction controls are sometimes weird. The priorities should be reconsidered such that e.g. when you push something [Space] should always let go and not start interaction with some other object behind. Also, when you grab a tree and then push its center away from the Clonk, you can sometimes not let go with [Space].

List of scenario candidates for a release, most of them are in the experimental folders. Again, I guess we should focus on improving some of them rather than trying to get them all done for a release.

Settlement / Missions:

* Acid Gold Mine: Should go in. I don't see any major issues.

* Acid drilling: An example scenario in which you can use the fact that pumps generate energy when they pump downwards. Like most of the scenarios, it feels a bit static due to the lack of e.g. AI animals. But could go in nonetheless.

* Deadly Grotto: Graphics wizards might need to work on the statue, but otherwise it's fine and I think it should go in

* Evil Castle: Since I announced it in the blog, it should really also go into the release. Unfortunately, there are some major todos: The end boss needs to be harder (maybe cast magic?), the AI has some weird behaviour, the castle decoration is mostly our of place and the scenario generally feels very unpolished. You just storm the castle and rush back in whenever you die. It feels like the castle needs to have some better protection, but I don't really know how to achieve that at the moment. Suggestions welcome.

* Frosty Summit: This is a very simple scenario which you can finish in five minutes. However, it's also quite challenging and easy to fail if all rubies fall our of the map. I like the idea and the gameplay but I don't know how to make it longer without making it repititive. Ideas welcome

* Golden Mountain: Currently my favourite. I see no major issues with it and it's fun and challenging to play

* Gold Seek (by Pyrit): Pretty simple scenario where you just search and mine gold. I like the idea of searching the map for gold, but I feel the effort of "seeking" the gold should be enhanced. There's just gold everywhere at the moment;)

* Mine Rescue: Feedback to ck already posted. Should be a fine mission.

* Playground: I don't know. What's this?

* Raiders: Ditto

* Ruby Cave: Very easy settlement scenario where your only obstacle is some water. Don't know if it should go in. Might be OK for newbies to play.

* Skylands: I'd like to have a skylands scenario in the official game, but this one doesn't feel very polished. The scaffolds definitely need rework and the wood/loam balancing needs some thought.

* Statue: Not done.

* Temple: Will be really cool when it's finished, but still needs to much work at the moment.

Parkour:

* Volcano Escape: Fun to play and I see no major issues.

* Volcano Escape EXTREME: Unfitting name aside, also a lot of fun to play. The volcano might need some balancing (a little rubber band effect), but it really has some atmosphere to it.

* DOOMSDAY: Probably not for official release

* Maze: I found it fun to play and it's a great example of the new, dynamic maps. The spray can needs some graphics but otherwise, it should go in.

Arena:

* Hot Ice: My favourite arena. Should be in the main pack.

* Nuts! (by Pyrit): If he releases it to be used by us, we should add it. Is a lot of fun

* Wrath of the Tools (by Pyrit), Berrypickers (by Pyrit), CloncqueDeMolay (by Pyrit): All feel a bit silly and small. Though I think it would be great to have them all together in a "Clonk Party" scenario.

By Newton

Date 2013-04-03 19:28

> but I feel the surrounding content (decoration, dialogues, different Clonk types...) is just not there yet

What about working (also) towards this as preparement? If all the deco n'stuff is there, we'd be open to creatively design and test the new scenarios

By Sven2

Date 2013-04-03 20:09

Sure it's possible and any contribution in that direction would help improve the game greatly. But that's a very open-ended task which I think shouldn't block the release.

Realistically, I don't think we'll be at a point where we can merge all missions into an interesting storyline by the end of May.

By Fluff

Date 2013-04-04 17:58

>Gold Seek

This really should be renamed. "Gold Seek" just isn't good English. Gold Seekers would work, and so would Gold Hunt, but "Gold Seek" sounds weird.

By Zapper

Date 2013-04-04 18:46

What about Göld Sük

By Pyrit Date 2013-04-06 17:53

@Arena stuff:

Aye I can release them, but I first have to replace some stuff with Creative Common ones. since I never thought they'd make it into the official release, I used files that aren't CC. (e.g. the peanut graphics, the music (I will just release it without), the sound it makes when a berry falls down).

Yeah, the little arena scenarios are all pretty shitty, I had the idea of a clonk party-like scenario in mind, too. (altough I would call it clonk fest, because it doesn't deserve to stand on one level with THE clonk party!) Clonk party is just great. Out of curiosity, who made clonk party? Or how did it originate? There is a first version of it on CCAN, but it sure made a long development up to 8.2.

By Sven2

Date 2013-05-13 18:01

Post updated: Acid drilling and Maze are also release candidates.

By Newton

Date 2013-05-27 00:30

Maze:
There is some odd bug. Matthi could spray solid earth with his spray can. Also, one could spray anywhere where one could see, not just within hand-reach of the clonk. The landscape could use some polishing - the tunnels look a bit empty and the only thing that can be found there are chests all with the same contents. Some suggestions:
+ spawn some interesting "scenes"
   - a dead end of a mining mission (with lorry, dead clonks, placed dynamite and stuff)
   - small underground castle walls (why are castle walls always indestructible? They shouldn't be IMO)
   - litter the paths with earth obstacles so that it feels more like a mining mission than an artificial maze
+ The vertical paths are really hard to climb, perhaps make them go straight up less often and more like max 75° incline?
+ Regarding the contents of the chests: spawn some interesting items - e.g. windbag, simple weapons/mining tools

By Sven2

Date 2013-05-27 08:09

> + spawn some interesting "scenes"
> - a dead end of a mining mission (with lorry, dead clonks, placed dynamite and stuff)
> - small underground castle walls (why are castle walls always indestructible? They shouldn't be IMO)

Yes, good ideas. I also wanted to add a bonus object that you can collect to increase your sight range in vertical dead ends.

> - litter the paths with earth obstacles so that it feels more like a mining mission than an artificial maze

It's supposed to be a maze though :o

> + The vertical paths are really hard to climb, perhaps make them go straight up less often and more like max 75° incline?

That's not easy but would be possible with some effort. But I think it would make the maze more boring if every passage was easy to walk. It's not like the vertical passages were impossible. So I don't agree with this.

> + Regarding the contents of the chests: spawn some interesting items - e.g. windbag, simple weapons/mining tools

There are shovels, wind bags, tele gloves and swords in the chests. They only occur in chests sitting at dead ends though.

By Newton

Date 2013-05-27 13:15

>It's supposed to be a maze though :o

Groing through cave systems in Minecraft are like mazes too even though they are mining missions. I mean, you already made the maze look less artificial by not putting Rock everywhere but a mix of materials.

By Maikel Date 2013-05-28 10:29

@Deadly Grotto: The gem goal cannot be fulfilled since there are no gems in this scenario, otherwise the map is a little too big, it took us 3 hours to complete and a lot of time was spent walking.

@VolcanoEscapes: I think we should only provide one in the release, the extreme version can be provided in an external package or both can be merged.

By Sven2

Date 2013-05-28 11:39 Edited 2013-05-28 12:22

> @Deadly Grotto: The gem goal cannot be fulfilled since there are no gems in this scenario, otherwise the map is a little too big, it took us 3 hours to complete and a lot of time was spent walking.

Uh, there shouldn't be a gem goal; that's a bug in Scenario.txt.

I have no idea how you can spend 3 hours on that scenario. When we tested, we just dug up some free space (and used the left side of the starting cave) to flood with acid. Then we walked forward with the source pipe of a pump and a number of wall kits to prepare the path. Didn't ever take more than an hour I think. Was it on some incredibly unlucky random map? Do you have a replay?

> @VolcanoEscapes: I think we should only provide one in the release, the extreme version can be provided in an external package or both can be merged.

I agree that having two scenarios named so similar is unfortunate. However, both are played very differently and I think it would be a bit of a loss to drop either one.

Maybe the regular scenario could be changed so you work your way downwards instead?

By Sven2

Date 2013-05-28 12:21

Gem goal is fixed

By Clonk-Karl [de]

Date 2013-04-04 08:34

Too bad it falls in my vacation period. I might be able to join on Saturday evening and/or Sunday.

By Maikel Date 2013-04-04 10:26

Regarding my involvement, unless my work demands me to be some place else I'll be mainly the host for the sleeping places as the last OCM in Hamburg.

Just one question regarding the dates, if both Sven and ck have problems coming the first few days, maybe it makes more sense to extend maybe from Friday to Wednesday covering the same weekend instead?
Or did you already take vacation days?

If the weather is nice, we can do a bbq and play some games in one of the parks near our houses.

By Sven2

Date 2013-04-04 11:37

I'm on a conference afterwards (29th to 31st) so next week's Wednesday is also blocked for me.

I think the dates should be fine; the hang gliding trip will also depend on the weather a bit.

By Clonk-Karl [de]

Date 2013-04-04 12:12

I would mostly have to work from Monday to Wednesday, so I think as well that it is fine as it is.

By Newton

Date 2013-04-04 12:12

I already took my vacation. I saw Clonk-Karls message just after I took it. If there is the demand, I could try to extend/move my vacation by a few days.

By Zapper

Date 2013-04-04 14:02

>If the weather is nice, we can do a bbq and play some games in one of the parks near our houses.

I can bring a slackline :)

By Clonkonaut [de]

Date 2013-04-05 09:27

Since attendig isn't hard for me, I will come ;) but not on a regular basis.

By Günther [de]

Date 2013-04-05 12:42

Ich bin dabei :-) Neben Clonk hätte ich Interesse an ein wenig Hamburg-Tourismus, aber nichts spezifisches.

PS: This isn't really technical discussion, is it? General Discussions, German or even Off Topic would all be more suitable places.

By Nachtfalter [de]

Date 2013-04-07 13:11

This.

By Caesar

Date 2013-04-07 15:42

Oooohyes!

By Dragonclonk [de]

Date 2013-04-07 18:27

Ist wirklich zu empfehlen, ist aber nichts zum mal eben durchrushen. Direkt daneben gibt es auch Hamburg Dungeon mit Restaurant etc.

By Sven2

Date 2013-04-27 11:15

Unfortunately, I'll probably not be there for the meeting :(

Due to some unexpected events, I'll be in Slowenia for hang gliding from 18th to 26th to expand my license (pending confirmation from the flight school, but I think it'll be during that week).

By Newton

Date 2013-04-27 19:41

Nooooo :-( Too bad to miss you out. We will surely meet afterwards when I am back in Germany.

By Maikel Date 2013-05-20 15:09

I lost overview here, especially who is coming and who needs to be picked up. So my details.

I have one mattress and blanket and a pillow, two small pillows, and further room for three more people to sleep I'd say.
So if you want the mattress, be the first to reply!

I am working on Wednesday as long as possible, so I'd prefer people to arrive in the afternoon. I will arrive home when the first participant will arrive at Altona ;)

Newton, when do you arrive in Altona? Or are you already here.

That's it I hope, see you soon!

By Newton

Date 2013-05-20 18:21

I am already there.

By Zapper

Date 2013-05-23 16:34

By Newton

Date 2013-05-02 19:20

Small update on my side here:
I will also arrive during the 22nd in Hamburg, so my flat is not open on that day. But Maikel should be able to welcome you.

Attending so far:
Newton
Günther
Clonkonaut (some days)
Zapper
Maikel
Clonk-Karl (tops Saturday-Sunday)
~~Sven2~~

Interested but no reply yet:
Caesar
Matthias
Mortimer

So what about the others? We still have plenty of place left. This is not a private meeting amongst the senior developers. If you are new and would like to get to know us in real life, this is you chance :-)

By Matthias [de]

Date 2013-05-02 22:41

Still interested, but I have to check back with work first. Will try to do that this weekend!

By Maikel Date 2013-05-03 13:40

For Wednesday the 22nd I'd prefer it if people come in the afternoon or evening, cause that would mean I could work in the morning and don't need to take a vacation day for that day.

By Mortimer [de]

Date 2013-05-03 15:43 Edited 2013-05-08 14:51

Still interested and probably have time then.

Will probably arrive on the 23rd.

By Matthias [de]

Date 2013-05-07 22:36

I'll come, I guess! Already checked and found some really cheap tickets to Hamburg on that day. One request though: Could I sleep on someones couch, or a small guest-mattress? I do have a camping mat, but I can't really sleep on those. :(