Bigger image here. Now is the time to discuss the appearance, proportions and much more!
Please note: The models are as quick as possible thrown together and there are no textures.
To start off: I like the general appearances of the buildings very much. The workshop gives off a really heavy and sturdy feeling, just as the foundry. The sawmill has a few "crooked" elements to it which I like, such as the exhaust pipe and the slightly slanted roof.
I think the buildings could use some more imperfection. Elements that would be flat and straight in real life could get varying thickness and less perfect angles. Examples for this could be the wooden beams and the roof of the elevator, the roofs of the workshop or the foundrys chimney.
Also, I think certain proportions can be exaggerated where it serves a purpose. It's already done with the hammer symbol (as should be - just imagine how small the item "hammer" would have to be if it was to be realistic!). As i mentioned in the other tread, I think the engine and wheel of the elevator could use some exaggeration. You could try to scale them up a bit - keep in mind, this is the interesting, moving part, so hiding it probably won't look as good :P
What I'd like to see would be the repetition of small details across the buildings. Of course, color and texture are gonna play their part in this, but parts of the model could resemble as well. Off-The-Top-Of-My-Hat-Ideas: The way beams intersect in the elevator model (some sort of boxlike connecting piece) could be carried over the the other buildings beams as well. The roof of elevator and sawmill already both feature some sort of rim, maybe it could be put on the workshop roof as well.
I agree on the exaggerations on the buildings. The iconic elements should be easily seen to identify the buildings.
Im also very happy you noticed the different character I tried to give the buildings :)
Two things I would like to have: 1. Some discussion/idea list of all the buildings that are considered "core buildings" 2. The model data of the current buildings so we can incorporate parts of these as it would be a waste if we don'T use the work that is already done.
> Some discussion/idea list of all the buildings that are considered "core buildings"
- Electricity related buildings: Compensator, Steam Engine, Wind Generator
- Base building: Flag
- Other: Pump
Possibly the theorised marketplace / buy-sell-building.
So, in total:
Not so core are: Chest, Idol, Stone Door (how's that even considered a structure), Wooden Cabin
Fungiform's sawmill has a roof and a small cabin next to it. Matthi's model is basically an exaggeratedly big buzz saw with an output pipe and some structure to hold it together.
The armory (or tools workshop?) also looks more like a hut with an interior, again cause of the roof and because of that big cube (oven?) in the middle of it.
I have to say, I like the notion of machines/open workshops more. Especially those three models, the current foundry, sawmill and tools workshop are models that I consider quite well done. The texture styles of the the sawmill and the other two are different, yes, but especially that could have been addressed instead of redoing them completely. (e.g. the foundry could have been extended to the left)
You do have a point about the sawmill, though. Maybe the "cabin" could be replaced by some of the same engine/wheel elements that can be found in the elevator?
Edit: Ah, reading your comment again, I came to realise you probably meant "machine" in the sense of "small machine", not "automated machine". Good thing my argument still holds true. :D
Anyways the lightning on these models looks so awesome, are they rendered images or 3d models?
Also I love how there's room for animations here, I'm a fan of stuff that moves and looks interesting and not dead. Like the crucible on the foundry, the flag on the elevator or the bellows on the workshop. Even the little hook on the workshop could swing slowly back and forth.
>Anyways the lightning on these models looks so awesome, are they rendered images or 3d models?
Rendered images, because shadows and ambient occlusion. Otherwise and without textures it would look like a grey mess.
Looks good. I'm not sure about the flag though.
1) It could be quite annoying when you want to build the elevator underground or in a place where there is not much room, the flag needs quite a lot of extra space at the top while not serving any obvious purpose.
2) It's not really possible to animate it convincingly using bones only. Of course it wouldn't be a problem using cloth simulation, but I have no idea whether it is possible to convert the baked cloth animation into something you can export to ogre format.
Also, this please.
Something like Topfaces for OC would be ace, please someone tell me that it is somehow possible to implement this! Having to use this ugly workaround like for the current elevator is a real mess, especially when it comes to animating.
Really cool, I particularly like the density and distribution of detail in this one.
I do not really like it. The sawblade, which should be the main part in a sawmill, is just sitting there in the middle of this huge construction surrounding it, with these two strange ropes somehow holding it, and it's all just not purpose-oriented. I would like either a completely different approach or some kind of scaffold with lots of saw blades attached to wooden "arms" which can swing around, and then have an animation where the tree is clamped in and there's all these blades cutting it into logs in a thick cloud of wood dust (sägespäne).
I like it, and I bet the pot an this wheel construction will look ultra cool in motion. What I do not like so much is that the building seems a little bit too andvanced and heavy for one of the first things you will build.
By the way, I like that both the foundry and the workshop have this little pile of material, what exactly will this be in the textured version?
But anyways, great work Nachtfalter and Fungiform!
- Flag would probably only be there if it has a function.
- We could still realize it with a sprite?
- The "clean" drawings for the other elevator is (almost) finished.
- Workshop: Will work on animation concept and mechanism to operate the bellow. Left side could be clearer whats going on...
- Sawmill: The strings are the belts that drive the saw. It is supposed to be connected to our motor thing. Not sure about swinging arms but I think you are right, the "machine part" could be more prominent here. Thats probably in line with Matthis proposal for more exaggeration. When zoomed out the characteristic part that defines the building function should be clearly visible.
- Foundry: I also had the feeling that it has a very advanced feeling to it. Unfortunately thats not very suitable because as it is now the foundry is the first building that is constructed in a typical settlement...
- The pile of material is supposed to be coal/fuel. If possible it could show how much fuel is available in the foundry or any other building that needs fuel.
Unfortunately at the moment I can't work as much on OC as I'd like .
>1) It could be quite annoying when you want to build the elevator underground or in a place where there is not much room, the flag needs quite a lot of extra space at the top while not serving any obvious purpose.
The bounding box of the elevator doesn't have to match with the flag.
It would be good if the model reflected that and consisted of less wood.
Maybe a tree should give more wood. Lowering the cost seems a bit ridiculous if the sawmill looks like a wooden construction. Otherwise I wouldn't approve a sawmill build from metal or concrete :-(
(I'm still not happy how it looks now, there is more work to do for sure!)
> Maybe a tree should give more wood.
One of the design changes in OC - also proposed by you I think - was to reduce the amount of materials required for buildings and make gathering more interesting instead.
A tree gives little wood (2) when just chopped by the axe and a lot of wood (5) when processed by the sawmill. If we decide to "always have plenty of forest" then you won't need a sawmill any more. You could just chop all your wood with the axe. Also, we can't have lots of forest every time because trees are lagging like hell.
If the decorational wood has to stay, I'd still prefer if the sawmill required only one piece of wood. The graphics would be off, but we shouldn't ruin gameplay because the artist couldn't imagine a sawmill without a wooden tower beside it.
>One of the design changes in OC - also proposed by you I think - was to reduce the amount of materials
Actually I called for more materials, so transport routes would be more useful.
>If we decide to "always have plenty of forest" then you won't need a sawmill any more.
Of course! Chopping will take a long time if I need a lot of wood - the sawmill will do the job in less time and (maybe) fully automatic.
>Also, we can't have lots of forest every time because trees are lagging like hell.
Why? Too many polys or do is there any animation/simulation process involved?
>The graphics would be off, but we shouldn't ruin gameplay because the artist couldn't imagine a sawmill without a wooden tower beside it.
Of course not. But the actual approach seems a bit too lazy to me.
>Of course! Chopping will take a long time if I need a lot of wood - the sawmill will do the job in less time and (maybe) fully automatic.
I might have mentioned occassionally that I think it is very bad design to balance things by just making them more annoying for the player (which includes making manual task longer than a certain unnerving-threshold)..
I am not in favour of making the visuals influence gameplay in a negative way.
Costs are always a balancing decision and are always subject to change. You don't want to remake everything in that case.
So imho it's okay to have a wooden exterior to the sawmill even if it just 1 wood to build.
>The workshop feels great, really massive and stable, but on the other hand the sawmill has lots of things sticking out that look like they could easily break off.
I don't know if Fungiform intended this, but I think the fragile-sticking-out look from the sawmill isn't a bad thing at all, because it may surrounded by trees, which are also a bit fragile. :)
Bigger Version. Please keep in mind: The models are more like sketches, not finished versions!
In the next step we will overhaul the Foundry and the Sawmill.
Wind Generator, I suppose? ;P
The three-winged one kinda looks retarded, I don't know why,
At first glance, I didn't recognize the tilted elevators as such. The two versions of the elevator (straight and tilted) should be very similar in terms of building technique. That means: same roof, same wheel, same "inside mechanisms", ...
Also, I think the tilted version seems too ... tilted, the case should be as close to the building as possible - because then it also looks good when two of these can be snapped together.
Random idea: A heavy rock attached to the tilted building, preventing it from being torn apart, falling down the shaft and crushing a poor baby-clonk.
It feels like the rock should be a lot bigger.
Random idea: It would be cool if those vertical beams were coloured green, red, etc. like if they were marks which the Clonks put there to make it easier to quickly see how much energy is stored.
Wings should be broader and the "tower" shouldn't be so pointy at the top. This has imo been done nicely in the current wind gen.
I like the three-winged one the least.
> Also, I think the tilted version seems too ... tilted, the case should be as close to the building as possible - because then it also looks good when two of these can be snapped together.
Personally, I would like to keep the tilted one for the intended purpose of "cliff-hanging" (stretching far out over the gap). This requires it being stretched out as far as possible, so you can reach out over the edge of a sky island or similar. This is already a cool and distinct feature.
On the other hand when it comes to combining two elevators to get the bigger one for bigger vehicles, I'd like to stick with the upright, space-saving version.
> Overhanging on skyislands is imo superflous
I don't think so. Digging / blasting through the material is of much hassle while "the side" of the island is already open! We played some rounds of Maikel's(?) sky island gem grabbing scenario where such a feature would be awesome. But yes, by using a loam bridge you get the same result (but I don't see why this available alternative makes you take such a strong opposition against having the tilted elevator).
Even when Newton mentioned the idea in the concepting thread, he referred to it as "some handy feature" and not a superfluous one!
I don't see any problem if the tilted elevator looks a bit different by the way. It helps you see what you're doing in the construction preview.
>Personally, I would like to keep the tilted one for the intended purpose of "cliff-hanging" (stretching far out over the gap). This requires it being stretched out as far as possible, so you can reach out over the edge of a sky island or similar.
Sure, this is a completely valid argument. My only thought was that the tilted version would look better when snapped together, but that's not really a problem.
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Edit: This but perhaps with bigger wings?
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