Also, maybe it keeps the community active, which is probably a good thing.
>Also, maybe it keeps the community active, which is probably a good thing.
Well, In my view, most of the time users get angry on each other. Offtopic doesnt add any activity an topic related things, so I dont get your point.
I dont need activity in an offtopic board to remind me that this forum is still in place.
Other option to me would be to have a "ignore whole subforum" function in mwforum. Ignoring one user so far is not enough as I still get the content of the blocked posts when quoted by others. And due to things Newton quoted below, this is a real annoyance.
So what applies here? What exactly has this discussion done to overstep the mark? What should be the future signal to close things down?
Seriously, if you want an off topic board, you should not want to try enforce anything apart from the German law, which in itself probably already forbids personal attacks.
> What exactly has this discussion done to overstep the mark?
Probably, one important aspect was the moment when J.J. decided you're not discussing, but he's right, you're all wrong, and he just needs to enlighten everyone: "All I am trying to do is help you see truth, but because you don't want to accept the truth and its consequences (...)".
> helping someone else see the truth is what discussing is all about
Discussions can also be held "cooperatively" to find solutions to concrete problems, to reach a common middle ground, to get feedback and new inspiration, or simply to get to know the participants better. They don't require the assumtion that someones point of view is - or is not - the "truth", and they don't necessarily aim to correct anyones opinion.
On the other hand, assuming that you know "the" truth from the start is obviously not a good mindset for that. But I'd say both sides have been quite guilty of that so far.
> helping someone else see the truth is what discussing is all about, isn't it?
No, not necessarily, like Matthias said. But someone helping others to see the truth(tm) isn't the point I tried to make.
It's that J.J., in the face of the many objections to his position, ceased listening - like with his point how "(the theory of) evolution can't explain the origin of life" for example - essentially switching from "discussing" to "missionizing".
I want to give you the reason for it so that you can better comprehend my decision, which is final:
The question whether we keep having an off topic board is not whether people can endure it or ignore it. Don't forget that we use this forum primarily as a development and project management tool, so an off topic board is a courtesy that is only legitimated if it doesn't irritate people and doesn't keep them from doing something constructive for our common hobby, which is OpenClonk. Recently however, the board has been a big waste of time and making many people upset.
Maikel is right in that I cannot moderate the off topic board because it is already by definition anything goes, just for fun and absolutely unimportant for our project because it is, well, off topic. Not without treading on someone's foot at least.
If someone posts off topic stuff in the General board on the other hand, moderators always have the legitimation to delete it (if it gets annoying).
If you wonder why I didn't let this be resolved by popular vote, it is out of the same reason why I let the artist workgroup decide by themselves how they wanted their development board: This forum is a development tool, its first priority is to facilitate development. So the forum must be in a structure "whatever we [=the contributors] can work with".
I put everything remotely related to Clonk in other boards (mainly General) now, which is actually most of the stuff that makes sense. (Remember, the board was once called "Garbage Dump" and was used as a pillory for posts of people who wrote off topic stuff, ... ah, those dark ages of OC development...)
Maybe, the off topic board can come back at some later time as a funboard, but not at this point, obviously.
Off Topic doesn't mean "No Rules". If someone causes trouble it's a fair reason to close down corresponding threads or ban the guy, but nuking the whole board is a bit overkill imho.
>I found myself wondering "what if a new contributor comes here and the first thing he finds is this stupid thread while all the other threads are much more quiet?".
Well yes, but you can't really blame the activity in the off topic board for a general lack of activitiy on any given day.
Pyrite is right you don't need to destroy the privileges of others just because some people on the forum don't agree with each others personal views, besides if somebody has a problem with me I am sure they can resolve it with me via pm.
Thank you for your time. J. J.
Edit: Unless you meant put it here, which would make some sense I guess.
[Title]LinkFest - Final Edition[/Title]
A decent Gmod video.
The music video for "Never Gonna Give You Up" by Rick Astley (Perfect song for Off-Topic's funeral)
Sam and Fuzzy - A very funny webcomic, one of my favourites.
Perhaps I'll go back to posting on Clonk.de. Perhaps not.
Thank you all. I have gained some priceless experience here at the openclonk forum.___ J. J. :)
I believe that we have lost a good community outlet and I suggest considering bringing it back for purpose of bringing back a better sense of community.
Please understand I have no intent of undermining newton's authority this is just a personal observation and opinion.
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