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Up Topic General / General / Delete Offtopic board
- - Date 2013-11-18 23:58
Parent - - By Nachtfalter Date 2013-11-18 11:34
Cant you delete the Offtopic Board? Please :|
Parent - By Matthias [de] Date 2013-11-18 18:28
Parent - By Fluff [gb] Date 2013-11-18 22:38
: (
Parent - By Nachtschatten Date 2013-11-18 22:38
I support this. (... which is perhaps not much of a surprise, as NF and I already agreed when we decided the clonkspot forum would have no offtopic board)
Parent - - By Sven2 [de] Date 2013-11-18 22:47 Edited 2013-11-18 23:05
I don't see the problem. I'm not interested in the discussions either, but I just ignore the philosophical topics. If people want to discuss this kind of stuff, I don't really mind.

Also, maybe it keeps the community active, which is probably a good thing.
Parent - By Nachtfalter Date 2013-11-18 23:25

>Also, maybe it keeps the community active, which is probably a good thing.

Well, In my view, most of the time users get angry on each other. Offtopic doesnt add any activity an topic related things, so I dont get your point.
I dont need activity in an offtopic board to remind me that this forum is still in place.
Parent - By Clonkonaut [de] Date 2013-11-18 23:36
Well, after these two unnerving topics, I'd also be in favour of this. Almost all of the other threads are ontopic enough to be posted in General. The other cool topics are a sacrifice that I'm now willing to make.

Other option to me would be to have a "ignore whole subforum" function in mwforum. Ignoring one user so far is not enough as I still get the content of the blocked posts when quoted by others. And due to things Newton quoted below, this is a real annoyance.
Parent - By Zapper [de] Date 2013-11-18 23:58
I am not in favour of that. I am capable of just ignoring a thread or posts or at least not post a reply even if I disagree and could rant
Parent - By Luchs [de] Date 2013-11-19 17:07
Why don't you just hide it for yourself?
Parent - - By PeterW [gb] Date 2013-11-18 19:38 Edited 2013-11-18 19:41
Well, let's try to be constructive here. If we want to avoid this in future, we ought to settle on rules to enforce. For example, back then when some newbie got badly flamed in the Clonk Forum, we settled on the "no personal attacks" rule.

So what applies here? What exactly has this discussion done to overstep the mark? What should be the future signal to close things down?
Parent - By Maikel Date 2013-11-18 20:25
Signal: One can not argue against the laws of nature :)

Seriously, if you want an off topic board, you should not want to try enforce anything apart from the German law, which in itself probably already forbids personal attacks.
Parent - - By Pyrit Date 2013-11-18 20:31
"no pointless debating"
Parent - By Zapper [de] Date 2013-11-18 20:43
Then I suggest not being a part of such debates :3
Parent - - By Nachtschatten Date 2013-11-18 22:32

> What exactly has this discussion done to overstep the mark?

Probably, one important aspect was the moment when J.J. decided you're not discussing, but he's right, you're all wrong, and he just needs to enlighten everyone: "All I am trying to do is help you see truth, but because you don't want to accept the truth and its consequences (...)".
Parent - - By PeterW [gb] Date 2013-11-18 22:40
Well, helping someone else see the truth is what discussing is all about, isn't it? Only thing directly wrong about it is the assumptions that somebody else just doesn't follow one's line of argument because of lack of faith or intelligence - that's an ad hominem.
Parent - - By Matthias [de] Date 2013-11-18 23:37

> helping someone else see the truth is what discussing is all about

Discussions can also be held "cooperatively" to find solutions to concrete problems, to reach a common middle ground, to get feedback and new inspiration, or simply to get to know the participants better. They don't require the assumtion that someones point of view is - or is not - the "truth", and they don't necessarily aim to correct anyones opinion.
Parent - - By PeterW [gb] Date 2013-11-19 12:47 Edited 2013-11-19 12:54
Again - isn't changing someone's opinion what discussing is about? Even if it's just the other person's view of your own opinion? Otherwise it would be a truly pointless exchange of words, after all.

On the other hand, assuming that you know "the" truth from the start is obviously not a good mindset for that. But I'd say both sides have been quite guilty of that so far.
Parent - By Matthias [de] Date 2013-11-19 16:04
Of course, many discussions aim to do that. But it doesn't have to be - at least not in the "convert to my truth!"-sense. Any kind of cooperative creative effort might do as an example: We can discuss about unfinished concepts even though nobody that participates has a finalized version of his concept that he wants the others to convince of. I could input a few of my ideas with the sole purpose of being improved upon - thats pretty much "discussion for the sake of discussion", because in the course of that, you can improve your own opionion, get new knowledge and reach a solution that is best for the final product.
Parent - By Nachtschatten Date 2013-11-24 16:45

> helping someone else see the truth is what discussing is all about, isn't it?

No, not necessarily, like Matthias said. But someone helping others to see the truth(tm) isn't the point I tried to make.
It's that J.J., in the face of the many objections to his position, ceased listening - like with his point how "(the theory of) evolution can't explain the origin of life" for example - essentially switching from "discussing" to "missionizing".
Parent - - By Zapper [de] Date 2013-11-18 23:56
that wasn't even this thread *shrug*
Parent - By Clonkonaut [de] Date 2013-11-19 10:51
No, it was from the topic that overstepped (as asked: "what was the reason for closing that one?"). It overstepped by turning into the forum's local mission.
- - By Newton [th] Date 2013-11-23 06:00 Edited 2013-11-23 06:09
I reached a decision now: The off topic board will be archived.
I want to give you the reason for it so that you can better comprehend my decision, which is final:

The question whether we keep having an off topic board is not whether people can endure it or ignore it. Don't forget that we use this forum primarily as a development and project management tool, so an off topic board is a courtesy that is only legitimated if it doesn't irritate people and doesn't keep them from doing something constructive for our common hobby, which is OpenClonk. Recently however, the board has been a big waste of time and making many people upset.
Maikel is right in that I cannot moderate the off topic board because it is already by definition anything goes, just for fun and absolutely unimportant for our project because it is, well, off topic. Not without treading on someone's foot at least.
If someone posts off topic stuff in the General board on the other hand, moderators always have the legitimation to delete it (if it gets annoying).

If you wonder why I didn't let this be resolved by popular vote, it is out of the same reason why I let the artist workgroup decide by themselves how they wanted their development board: This forum is a development tool, its first priority is to facilitate development. So the forum must be in a structure "whatever we [=the contributors] can work with".

I put everything remotely related to Clonk in other boards (mainly General) now, which is actually most of the stuff that makes sense. (Remember, the board was once called "Garbage Dump" and was used as a pillory for posts of people who wrote off topic stuff, ... ah, those dark ages of OC development...)

Maybe, the off topic board can come back at some later time as a funboard, but not at this point, obviously.
Parent - - By Pyrit Date 2013-11-23 15:20
That's like punishing the whole community just because of one guy...
Off Topic doesn't mean "No Rules". If someone causes trouble it's a fair reason to close down corresponding threads or ban the guy, but nuking the whole board is a bit overkill imho.
Parent - - By Nachtfalter Date 2013-11-24 14:49
Did you read Newtons post?
Parent - By Pyrit Date 2013-11-24 15:57
Parent - - By Matthias [de] Date 2013-11-23 15:37
I'm okay with that. Once I learned that I could hide it for myself, half of my doubts were gone. The other half was that it often was the only board with activity - I found myself wondering "what if a new contributor comes here and the first thing he finds is this stupid thread while all the other threads are much more quiet?".
Parent - By B_E [de] Date 2013-11-23 18:05

>I found myself wondering "what if a new contributor comes here and the first thing he finds is this stupid thread while all the other threads are much more quiet?".

Well yes, but you can't really blame the activity in the off topic board for a general lack of activitiy on any given day.
Parent - By J. J. [py] Date 2013-11-23 21:00
I request a compromise most of the of-topic bored will be brought back, just not the evolution and philosophy branches. I can continue my discussions via pm.
Pyrite is right you don't need to destroy the privileges of others just because some people on the forum don't agree with each others personal views, besides if somebody has a problem with me I am sure they can resolve it with me via pm.

Thank you for your time.   J. J.
Parent - - By AlteredARMOR [ua] Date 2013-11-25 07:22
Well, people, take your last chance to write something on the off-topic board :-)
Parent - - By Fluff [gb] Date 2013-11-25 11:04 Edited 2013-11-25 11:12
I can't see it :(

Edit: Unless you meant put it here, which would make some sense I guess.

[Title]LinkFest - Final Edition[/Title]
A decent Gmod video.
The music video for "Never Gonna Give You Up" by Rick Astley (Perfect song for Off-Topic's funeral)
Sam and Fuzzy - A very funny webcomic, one of my favourites.

Perhaps I'll go back to posting on Perhaps not.
Parent - - By Zapper [de] Date 2013-11-25 11:09
That miiight be because it's deleted and AlteredARMOR missed that this topic had been moved before the deletion :)
Parent - By Fluff [gb] Date 2013-11-25 11:12
On reflection, I edited my post.
Parent - - By Pyrit Date 2013-11-27 13:46
Yay, let's count to a million !
Parent - - By Fluff [gb] Date 2013-11-27 14:26
Parent - - By Andriel Date 2013-11-27 15:04
Parent - - By Fluff [gb] Date 2013-11-27 21:24
What comes after 2?
Parent - - By Fungiform Date 2013-11-27 22:47
Parent - - By Fluff [gb] Date 2013-11-28 00:42
[citation needed]
Parent - - By Fungiform Date 2013-11-28 01:23
At the end of scene 33 it's explained.
Parent - By Fluff [gb] Date 2013-11-28 10:45
- By J. J. [py] Date 2013-11-25 18:04
If anybody is interested in my religious beliefs please contact me via pm (personal message).

Thank you all. I have gained some priceless experience here at the openclonk forum.___ J. J.  :)
- By J. J. [py] Date 2013-12-30 21:21
I understand why newton closed the off-topic board, but I have been observing the forum and we have lost quite a bit of activity on the forum.
I believe that we have lost a good community outlet and I suggest considering bringing it back for purpose of bringing back a better sense of community.

Please understand I have no intent of undermining newton's authority this is just a personal observation and opinion.
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