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Up Topic Development / Art Workshop / [Music]Lmms Collaboration | Open Music
- - By Nandelus [il] Date 2014-05-19 11:53
I've recently tried LMMS on my windows with equipment which was previously used with ableton live. I've rewrote one of my songs in it and I'm quite pleased with the results.
I like the concept of "Open Source Music" and I think that such collaboration can be beneficial to both the artists and possibly could be used by the OC project.
Exchanging project files would be a lot more efficient than midi files and could in general create an environment where any artists\producers\composers could take the project and rebuild, remake, recompose, with no limitations such as midi files.
I'm of course talking about collaboration under the CC-BY license.
Here's some features of LMMS I think could be beneficial to the OC project:

Native OGG export support (Easy to implement)
Built in VST host
Quite a few software synth's and samplers.
A myriad amount of plugins, such as limiters, compressors, etc..
Possible to use with Asio drivers under windows.
SoundFont player
Both windows and linux support

I already have a project I'd gladly share and collaborate on.

So how about it?
It's been years since I've last seen these forums, it's awesome seeing how far this project have gotten.
Parent - - By Maikel Date 2014-05-19 12:41
Personally I approve of such collaborations, but this you have to agree on with the people actually making the music.

Currently that are K-Pone (his music is in the game now) and ala (his music can't be released directly into the game, but will probably/hopefully an add-on later).

If there is need for a repository, we can set up one, or you can use the resources repository which already contains two music projects by K-Pone.
Parent - - By K-Pone [de] Date 2014-05-19 14:01
I'd agree with that, but it's sometimes a bit complicated to share LMMS projects between users. As long as you only use the default stuff that comes along with LMMS that might be no problem, but as soon as you start using custom things like SoundFonts, VSTs, custom samples, and maybe even additional effects, you have to make sure all users who use the project have the resources at the same location. Else you have to reassign certain things in the project. Unfortunately LMMS doesn't have an 'export as zip file' function like FL-Studio. Another problem will occur when you collaborate with someone who uses a different OS. For example when I save a project on Windows, custom samples are located at "C:\Users\User\lmms\samples\example.ogg" while the sample would be at "/home/user/lmms/samples/example.ogg" on a Linux machine. Luckily things from the default resources and things from the user directory are saved like "samples/example.ogg". In that case the sample can be on both paths. The most important thing collaboration partners have to talk about is the version to use. Recently version 1.0.0 was released and I've already tried that out. Projects are not completely backwards-compatible unfortunately. Notes and such will stay the same, but every controller of every instrument and effect plugin will be set to 0. So, although there are newer versions already, I would recommend version 0.4.14 for collaborations since it's the most stable version as of my experience.
Parent - By Nandelus [il] Date 2014-05-19 15:08
K-Pone, I can see that you addressed those Issues,

What you say is completely true, while the different versions problem could be remedied by recreating an older project with a newer version.
I think that to simplify all of this we can just use vanilla lmms, and state some standards as to plugins.
here are my ideas as to that;
If possible, the GeneralUser GS soundfont should be used to simplify all soundfont problems. if others are needed they would be implemented only under compatible licenses.
The generaluser gs is availiable under a license that is packaged along with a lot of gpl software I think, and should work on all machines.
Vanilla LMMS should be used for maximum compatiblity. I use 1.0.2 which I like a lot. I don't know how much the plugins have changed since, but I've opened one of your projects and got some of the synth's to work.
I don't mind switching to an older version.
vst plugins should be avoided. unless they're availiable as freeware. for example if you use the free kontakt player, I can use it too since it's availiable for all windows uesrs, but won't work for linux..
here's my contribution, it's very simplistic but I think it's nice.
I've made it with vanilla Lmms 1.0.2 (no vsts)
the only exception to vanilla lmms is the use of the GeneralUser GS SoundFont for drums and rhodes.  I'll make it availiable in a zip file along the its license.
I'll upload it as a zip file along with the synth presets

the zip contains the mmpz file, the presets for the synths (I've only used the triple oscillator) an ogg file, and the general user gs. I of course cannot provide a download to the soundfont under the cc-by license, so the license for the soundfont is included.
this is just a very simplistic way to show collaboration is possible..
I herby release the project files under the CC-BY -NC 4.0 license.
Including the project file, the synth presets and the ogg exported example.
download from my drive:
Parent - - By Nandelus [il] Date 2014-05-19 14:05
Thanks for the fast reply Maikel,

Brilliant, I can see K-Pone has already uploaded his .mmpz files, but those are only half of the project..
They contain a lot of samples that are not included. in order to rehear what he made in LMMS those .wav, .flac, and .ogg files need to be availiable.
otherwise you can only hear half the instruments..
Can I upload my own project to the respitory? or does that require some kind of authorization?
Parent - - By Maikel Date 2014-05-19 14:10
As you can see I am no expert on music creation :)

>Can I upload my own project to the respitory? or does that require some kind of authorization?

No for this repository you need to be a developer (which you can become after showing that you are able to handle git and want to contribute more than once). Git (our version control system) allows you to supply patches, but for that matter it would be easier to start something on github. But now I see from K-Pone's post that it is not trivial at all to share these project files, since stuff is missing (and might not even be licensed under CC BY). I don't know to what extend using git may be useful.

For a small number of people alternatives are as always dropbox/email or attaching files in the forum (depending on size).
Parent - - By K-Pone [de] Date 2014-05-19 15:36

>For a small number of people alternatives are as always dropbox/email or attaching files in the forum (depending on size).

Dropbox is indeed a good way for small collaborations like this one, but it may collide with the path problem. At least it allows you to share all the resources used in the project easily, as long as you don't exceed the storage limit of Dropbox.
Parent - - By Nandelus [il] Date 2014-05-19 15:47
Just in case you didn't notice, I posted a simple project up there, does it work with the older 0.4.14? you might need to go into setting also and change the soundfont file to the one included
Parent - By K-Pone [de] Date 2014-05-19 15:55
It does not. There's only one instrument making sound which is the Bass. All the other instruments don't make any noise as all the effect's parameters (knobs in the effect's settings) were turned to 0. That's a problem with projects from the versions 1.0.0 to 1.0.2. They are not backwardscompatible. You can open an old project with a new version, but not the other way round.
Parent - - By K-Pone [de] Date 2014-05-19 15:49

>They contain a lot of samples that are not included. in order to rehear what he made in LMMS those .wav, .flac, and .ogg files need to be availiable.

There are no .wav or .ogg files used in the two projects that are uploaded until now. There were only .flac files used which come from the Hydrogen Drumkits addon for LMMS 0.4.8. It hasn't been included to the newer versions since then, but you can still install the package to your LMMS samples folder in "My Documents\lmms\samples\drumkits". If it doesn't want to extract the files (as it sometimes does for me), you can also open the .exe file with 7zip and extract the drumkits directly to your LMMS samples folder. Just make sure the folders are in the "drumkits" subfolder then (you have to create it if it's not there). You can find the file here:
Parent - - By Nandelus [il] Date 2014-05-19 15:56 Edited 2014-05-19 16:00
I tried it with IslandDreams and it works with 1.0.2 32bit except for the powersaw, and soundfonts.
I just had to install that to \samples\drumkits like you said.

Oh I understand now. It'l like with every DAW. so doesn't it make sense to use 1.0? what's the reason to use the older version?
Parent - - By K-Pone [de] Date 2014-05-19 16:12
The reason why I don't use the newer version is that it is too unstable for my purposes. Since I use ZynAddSubFX quite a lot I need a version in which it works fine. Since 1.0.0 ZynAddSubFX crashes as soon as a certain type of oscillator is selected. Also the interface is extremely glitched up when I use both versions on my system since the design engine has changed since 1.0.0.
Parent - - By Nandelus [il] Date 2014-05-19 16:32 Edited 2014-05-19 17:49
I see.. for some reason port audio doesn't work for me in 4.1, without it I have huge latency..
Also, can you tell me what soundfont you used for these projects? that way I'd be able to hear the whole project in 1.0.2

Double Edit:
I changed the soundfont file in the your motorway project to the generaluser one for comparison:
Parent - - By K-Pone [de] Date 2014-05-19 17:40 Edited 2014-05-19 17:46
well, i use multiple SoundFonts. These are the ones I use:

EDIT: In Motorway the Drums and Marimba track use FluidR3_GM, the other two tracks use WeedsGM3. And interesting results with your SoundFont :)
Parent - - By Nandelus [il] Date 2014-05-20 14:50 Edited 2014-05-20 15:24
I got 0.4.14 to work and I'll rebuild my project on it. what kind of external sample libraries and synth's should be used?

I just saw that samples under the cc sampling+ isn't allowed so most sample libraries shouldn't be used. correct?
Parent - By K-Pone [de] Date 2014-05-24 16:12
Yep. We should only use samples that are allowed to be used within the CC-BY license. The Hydrogen Drumsamples from LMMS 0.4.8 fit to that, so they can be used. I also use them quite a lot.
Parent - - By ala [de] Date 2014-05-24 20:17 Edited 2014-05-24 22:27
Busy week for me, sorry for not replying yet, as well as to your email. I've not forgotten, thanks for the organization effort so far. I've looked in LMMS one full morning. It seems pretty straight forward, no comparison to super confusing Pro Tools (which took forever to learn), shouldn't be a big problem to work with.

One important thing:
Personally I'd rather not go CC-BY for my music, at least right now. I might reconsider this if we have a respectable project size. But for now the disadvantages outweigh the uses, it's especially difficult in Germany if you join the German distribution foundation GEMA, which has not yet adapted to this kind of stuff yet. An alternative would be to join the Dutch foundation BUMA. But it's not a thing I decide over night, depends a lot on how the future turns out.

Also in terms of sound. I'll try around with the program, but for the next 4 weeks at least my focus will stay on composition mainly. I have a big entrance exam for composition, where I want to brag with orchestration skills and such, this is also why I do so much orchestra at the moment :)
Parent - By K-Pone [de] Date 2014-05-25 12:54

>it's especially difficult in Germany if you join the German distribution foundation GEMA, which has not yet adapted to this kind of stuff yet.

For that reason the Cultural Commons Collecting Society (C3S) has been founded. In contrast to the GEMA they don't claim all the author's copyrights from a song, so you can still publish a song under a Creative Commons license while you're a member of C3S. Anyway, it's still a very young project, they've been founded in September 2013.
- By Nandelus [il] Date 2014-05-25 10:26 Edited 2014-05-25 10:58
Good luck on your test David, good to see all that composing.

I've remixed(if that's the correct word) IslandDreams by K-Pone, I've changed instrumentation, mixing, added a new part and made it longer, and other changes, just for fun.

I hereby release the following files under the original license they had, the cc-by license:
The ogg:
the project file:

What do you think?

btw, This 8 gig library of samples was released under the cc-by license:
they have a torrent of everything together, and also different downloads for instruments, might be worth checking out
Up Topic Development / Art Workshop / [Music]Lmms Collaboration | Open Music

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