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Up Topic Development / Scenario & Object Development / Concrete and fluid granit
- - By Armin [de] Date 2015-06-14 23:50
A few thoughts about these two Clonk items:

+ It can be a tactically useful item for settlements.
+ Another mechanic to change the landscape, fill caves with rock to have a wall.
+ The foundry could be the producer because it produces loam as well.
- It has the possibility to imprison Clonks.
- You can dig away 1px lines of rock.

Fluid granit:
+ The name explains the material very good.
- Real fluid granit doesn't exist of course in that sense. There are only a few cheap, chemical plastic products named "fluid granit".
- What ingredients? Rock again?
- It is way harder to remove it compared to concrete.

However, here is a fast test map of it I just made.

I hereby license the file ConcreteTest.ocs under the CC-BY license
Attachment: ConcreteTest.ocs (12k)
Parent - - By Newton [de] Date 2015-06-15 07:57
Hm I always disliked the concrete for creating those 1px thick walls in which the clonks could get easily stuck. But on the other hand, I see the necessity for the possibility to create cheap fundaments. Building it with metal seems to be a bit expensive. What do you think about concrete being like metal, only you need just a rock+? to produce it and you can build only rock, not granite out of it.
Parent - By Armin [de] Date 2015-06-15 18:25 Edited 2015-06-15 19:49
I thought having fluid rock is the most unique and interesting alternative to the other 3 unique placement mechanics. There is loam which creates curvy earth walls, a wall kit for perfect flat granite ceilings/walls and the Basement.ocd object which has no material at all but is a strong building which takes more damage than 2 firestones. A different version of any of these ways to build a wall could make one of these 3 items useless. E.g. if a rock wall kit is cheap, maybe nobody will use granite/metal wall kits or the other way around.

@All posts: I see that a fluid rock item could have not enough use cases. One of the few "better use fluid material" cases that come to my mind would be if a lake freezes and you throw some concrete on it, then you have a super flat, safe bridge on the water (rare case). Or if you want to make it hard for the enemy to dig out a cave to your base but the cave is too small to build a Basement.ocd in it (happens in CoFuT sometimes). In CR, fluid stuff was also a cheap way to fill tiny holes against acid but there are e.g. less holes in OpenClonk settlements because you can build several overlapping Basement.ocd objects.
Parent - - By Zapper [de] Date 2015-06-15 09:11
Mh, I am also afraid of those remaining solid pixels everywhere..

What about being able to take a normal rock, use a hammer and create a solid block in the landscape with that? If those blocks then snap to each other, you could easily create basements or walls.
Parent - - By Anonymous [us] Date 2015-06-15 12:20
We already have basement objects. They only need a hammer and 2 rocks. They work nicely as basements for builsings and as protection from rockfall from above.
Parent - - By Zapper [de] Date 2015-06-15 12:27
Then we can just as well extent that and also allow f.e. walls or smaller, cheaper segments and get basically all + points from the original post here?
Parent - By Sven2 [us] Date 2015-06-15 12:36
Yeah, using the flip key (Space) to cycle through four different orientations might work nicely.
Parent - - By Pyrit Date 2015-06-15 16:07
I'd like to be able to place blocks or materials around the landscape. You could make your own awesome houses like in Terraria.
I experimented around with bricks, like those from the Bauklotzpack. Using the mouse is convenient.

I see a chance for a whole new production branch here:

You can put stuff into the macerator and grind it to dust. Then you put the dust and a waterbarrel (alternative watersource: pump) into a Betonspritze and draw the material into the landscape. The Betonspritze could only work within a small radius and need energy, so have to keep it to your base and places where you can push it to. So you'd not be able to spam the whole landscape immidiately. Drawing could work on a grid, or analogous, if someone wants to draw penises into the landscape.

Or, have blocks, but Spritzbeton is cooler, imo.
Anyway, here's my map with the blocks.

I hereby license the file Blocks.ocs under the CC-BY license
Attachment: Blocks.ocs (84k)
Parent - By Zapper [de] Date 2015-06-15 19:24
I like that :)

What I would find cool if we could find a way to make the blocks look less blocky - maybe by having different graphics for different connections so that it looks more fluid?

PS: actually, it might be cool to do this with actual material instead of blocks - just draw the rock material, f.e. The material system is one of the great strengths that Clonk has compared to f.e. Terraria
Parent - - By Maikel Date 2015-06-15 12:30
I am not sure whether this is useful, we don't have to take everything we had in CR. We already have metal kits and basements which can both do the same thing as granite.

The 1 pixel thing is very annoying, everything with a thickness smaller than 4px will have the clonk hanging on it with its centre. I think we should try to not have this.

What would be the tactical usefulness in settlements?

Something else I just thought of would be barrels filled with Concrete, which you can then either throw or pump into caves, no need for a new item then.
Parent - - By Sven2 [us] Date 2015-06-15 13:12
Making it pumpable would be very nice. You could have a concrete mixer from which you just pump away the concrete or liquid granite. It would be used e.g. to create defensive walls. You just dig a vertical shaft and then fill it with concrete.

The main use of liquid granite in CR, btw, was to use it in your enemies base. In case of the pumps you would throw a line kit end into the enemy base and fill his mine with solid rock.

In either case you concrete doesn't help much though. Having only liquid granite would be enough I think.
Parent - - By Sven2 [us] Date 2015-06-15 13:13
Oh and it could also be used in settlement. E.g. in Acid Rift, you would fill the bottom with concrete to displace the acid and then work your way through the side shafts to mine stuff.
Parent - By Maikel Date 2015-06-15 14:22
Ah, yes that is a cool mechanic, I would then indeed only have the granite type, but just call it concrete. Concrete is the natural name for this in some sense. 

The simplest way somehow to me would be if e.g. the foundry takes a Water Barrel and two rocks and turns it into a barrel filled with concrete. Then just drop a pipe in the foundry and it would take the concrete from the barrels. But maybe we can think of something more convenient.
Up Topic Development / Scenario & Object Development / Concrete and fluid granit

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