![[us]](/mwf/flags/us.png "United States")
Another simple get-the-ruby scenario. Doesn't require buguse this time :-)[file attached]
![[de]](/mwf/flags/de.png "Germany")
Gameplay (my lack of understanding things here surprised me the most, since I played Clonk a lot):
- I cannot buy at the flag with E. Why not? Hitting SPACE also does not open a buy menu.
- the choice of available buildings is confusing. I have no idea what will be useful and what not. Why would I need a kitchen in this scenario? My first choice was the wooden hut, because I hoped that I would be able to buy something there, but I noticed that I have 0 money, so I cancelled the construction.
- first I built a lumbermill so that I can make wood out of the trees, and because I assumed that it was a basic building from what I read in the other threads. Then I noticed that I do not have an axe, so I started a tools workshop, but I thought it was stupid, because I have no metal. Luckily there was metal in the lorry.
- the falling coconuts are annoying, there are lots of them!
- I tried using moss in the loom. Why is there a loom anyway?
- the sky is blurry. This also happened in the Tricky Temple scenario (near the temple).
- I wanted to put construction material into my saw mill construction site by hitting SPACE, seemed natural to me. It instead cancelled the construction.
- Pressing SHIFT to collect rocks was annoying.
- I want to select items from the menu with the keyboard.
- the inventory menu is close to what I had in mind for my adventure scenario thing, so one less thing for me to do, yay :)
- in front of the tools workshop I wanted to open the production menu with SPACE. This created a moss in my inventory, because a moss-bush (?) was hidden behind the building. I am (currently) missing the use-information that was displayed in previous versions of OC. Not that I miss the old mechanic of having to navigate through what I want to use, but at the moment I am just SPACEing everything because I have no idea if there will be an interaction or not.
- in the tools workshop I wanted to create an axe. I have wood and metal in my inventory, but starting production does not work. I had to click wood and metal first to transfer it, then start production. I would have expected that clicking the axe automatically takes stuff from my inventory, just as construction with the hammer does.
- the lumber mill makes a funny plop-sound.
- now that I have a lumber mill and a tools workshop I chopped a palm and put it in the mill. Not having multiple clonks that can automatically chop the other palms makes the lumber mill less useful than a sawmill in previous Clonk games. I have to wait a long time anyway, advantage that I see is that you have all the wood in one place.
- I have idea how to proceed. My idea is building stone doors to climb up to the ruby. I have no clue why there are three different versions of them.
Possible bugs:
- when an inventory menu is opened and I cannot transfer an item to the container, then I hear a shovel sound when I click an item. I have the shovel in my first inventory slot. It happens regardless which item is selected. Could have been the sound of a coconut falling, though.
- I created a wooden cabin construction site with the hammer and decided to immediately cancel the construction. The site created a lot of wood when I cancelled it. Maybe it took wood from the lorry that was standing right next to the con-site?
> - Pressing SHIFT to collect rocks was annoying.
Can you elaborate on this? I am a huge fan of the new behaviour where you can select which item to pick up and do not have to worry about automatically picking up items.
Regarding this scenario: this round was designed for the experts in OC, and as far as I know there is only 1 solution which requires you to build a "set" of items and then on top of that master those items to almost perfection. And I think buying at flagpole is not enabled (this is a rule).
>> - Pressing SHIFT to collect rocks was annoying.
>Can you elaborate on this? I am a huge fan of the new behaviour where you can select which item to pick up and do not have to worry about automatically picking up items.
It is a good new feature, and I implemented something like that in other scenarios in CR already, but in that situation it was annoying: I want to mine rocks and throw a firestone into the material. Rocks are spawned, I have three empty slots. All I want to do is collect the available rocks, I have to hit shift a few times. This is a situation where I do not want to select anything other than the stuff lying on the ground.
Not entirely fitting in this thread though!> I cannot buy at the flag with E. Why not? Hitting SPACE also does not open a buy menu.
Because there's nothing to buy in this scenario.
> confusing
> lumbermill
> why is there a loom
This is a puzzle scenario. You are supposed to find out what to do. (I haven't)
If you'd only the stuff available to solve the scenario, it wouldn't be a good puzzle.
> I tried using moss in the loom.
You need to put cotton seed (in the lorry) into the loom.
> I wanted to put construction material into my saw mill construction site by hitting SPACE, seemed natural to me.
Why was that more natural to you than the button you use everywhere else to put stuff into other stuff?
> I am (currently) missing the use-information that was displayed in previous versions of OC.
Indeed, that is a problem. You can hold down space to get that information.
> Maybe it took wood from the lorry that was standing right next to the con-site?
Yes, that's a convenience feature.
>Because there's nothing to buy in this scenario.
Would be nice to get this information from the flagpole. It would tell me that I used the correct key for accessing the buy menu, but there is nothing. The current behaviour left me confused.
>> I tried using moss in the loom.
>You need to put cotton seed (in the lorry) into the loom.
I was stating random things that I did while using the scenario. Can the loom be used with cotton only? And why cotton seed, I thought you would need a harvested cotton plant to make fabric, not the seeds.
>> I wanted to put construction material into my saw mill construction site by hitting SPACE, seemed natural to me.
>Why was that more natural to you than the button you use everywhere else to put stuff into other stuff?
The interaction I imagined was "continue building" which would try to get the remaining components from my inventory, which would be more convenient than having to open the menu and click every single component into the construction site inventory.
>You can hold down space to get that information.
>Yes, that's a convenience feature.
Is this explained somewhere?
This is by no means a rant, just random observations while playing the game. It seems that some things are not intuitive to "outsiders", that is people who are not part of the core development team and those who are not playing/testing the game regularly. It is cool to see that the settlement stuff has really progressed, though.
> And why cotton seed, I thought you would need a harvested cotton plant to make fabric, not the seeds.
I made both those things the same. :V
> Is this explained somewhere?
No, it's not. That's something, Tutorials should do or so. Although, the whole behaviour isn't ideal!
> It seems that some things are not intuitive to "outsiders"
Definitely! For a fully fledged release, we'd need to clear those things up. But Snapshots are a mine field by definition. :O
>Yes, that's a convenience feature.
That should behave the same in all places where you need material (production, construction, ..). I guess I will put that into a common function in the Clonk (Find/GetProductionMaterial or something). The question is just whether you would first want to use remaining material in the producer or first use the material from the Clonk. I guess the latter is more intuitive?
PS: okay, maybe I won't make it a common function, because the construction site stuff is very specific, because it looks in the rectangle of the construction site, which is logical I guess.
Thanks for all the feedback. I wish to add that I just created this quickly in an hour or so and it is not polished yet.My idea was that scenarios like this could be used as some kind of bonus map only made visible after you've found a secret in one of the regular missions.
> - the choice of available buildings is confusing
I just give all construction plans in a loop (including stuff you cannot really build) because I didn't want to go through the list. I also just dragged random vegetation into the map so it could look a lot nicer.
Speaking of that, we should either add a callback to the non-buildable structures (like the stone door) or make them properly buildable (e.g.: When you build a switch and its not connected yet, open a menu to allow connection). That would be a cool solution to the riddle. You just build a stone door and a switch, then jump on it as it travels up.
> I am (currently) missing the use-information that was displayed in previous versions of OC. Not that I miss the old mechanic of having to navigate through what I want to use, but at the moment I am just SPACEing everything because I have no idea if there will be an interaction or not.
Me too. Zapper?
>Me too. Zapper?
Suggestions? IMO [space] should only be for grabbing things (lorry, lever.., maybe plucking mushrooms) and everything else should be in the E-menu. That allows us to also ship a good description with every possible interaction.
Can you describe in one sentence what space does then? For future reference of what one should place on space and what not :/
Physical interactions with ingame objects that require manual action from the Clonk (possibly always with an animation change). Pushing, grabbing, pulling levers, pulling out mushrooms, plucking berries, bla. Maybe not even the berries as they could be just collectable via [shift].That's what I imagined at least. As always, I am open to suggestions, though.
Good feedback!I'll pick out some points:
>- I wanted to put construction material into my saw mill construction site by hitting SPACE, seemed natural to me. It instead cancelled the construction.
Good point. I guess putting the deconstruction on SPACE is very error-prone. I'd favour the deconstruction in the interaction menu. Probably nothing on SPACE then? SPACE should be for real Clonk interactions like pushing stuff etc
>- in the tools workshop I wanted to create an axe. I have wood and metal in my inventory, but starting production does not work. I had to click wood and metal first to transfer it, then start production. I would have expected that clicking the axe automatically takes stuff from my inventory, just as construction with the hammer does.
Also a good point!
>- when an inventory menu is opened and I cannot transfer an item to the container, then I hear a shovel sound when I click an item
Some buildings can only take some materials (f.e. you cannot put tools into the Tools Workshop). Could it be that?
>- I want to select items from the menu with the keyboard.
Yes, that's already somewhere on the to-do list. (Because at least gamepad support would require some sort of non-mouse selection.)
> - the sky is blurry. This also happened in the Tricky Temple scenario (near the temple).
Can you show a screenshot?
[Edit] I'll create another gif later again. This one is 15mb
There is no section change in this scenario, is there?
I wonder if we can slow down loading of that object if multiple are being carried.
No, why? I think it's fun!It could be toned down if we ever find it to be problematic in a scenario we have. Which I doubt, because once you have e.g. wall kits, wind bags and grapple bows, you can pretty much get over any possible gap in a scenario anyway. E.g.: One wind bag and one wall kit would be enough to get to all islands in Gem Grabbers.
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