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Up Topic Development / Developer's Corner / Current activity
- - By Marky [de] Date 2016-06-15 21:49
Just wanted to keep track of what I am doing - I could live with an official Trello page for OC, though. Feel invited to post your activity, too. My idea was to keep editing this post and cross out stuff once it is finished.

Currently developping:
- better dialogue system for adventure library
- GUI message box for dialogue system

Currently on hold:
- graphics for gold idol
- merge implementations for transferring items in the object interaction menu
- some improvements for the liquid containers (have to sort through the thread again).

Parent - - By Clonkonaut [de] Date 2016-06-15 22:47

> I could live with an official Trello page for OC

Not official though but the Milestone team utilises Trello.
Parent - - By Marky [de] Date 2016-06-16 04:27
Yes, that is why I mentioned it. The milestones are organized with Trello, why not the "normal" development?
Parent - - By Newton [de] Date 2016-06-16 09:15
You can set this up if you want. Personally, I think it is quite overpriced.
Parent - - By Marky [de] Date 2016-06-16 11:28
I was not aware that they charge money for that.
Parent - - By Luchs Date 2016-06-16 12:15
There's a free tier as well, but the Milestone project uses a paid organization I think?
Parent - - By Clonkonaut [de] Date 2016-06-16 13:02
Yeah, because of Slack. But Slack definitely didn't improve anything.
Parent - By Zapper [de] Date 2016-06-16 13:56
Well, that's just, like, your opinion. For me, it did :V
Parent - By Nachtfalter Date 2016-06-19 17:05
Customizable Backgrounds!!
Parent - - By Marky [de] Date 2016-06-19 20:08
Kannst du mich zu dem Board hinzufügen? Meine ID ist Marky17
Parent - - By Nachtfalter Date 2016-06-19 22:05
Done. Remember: Added Members can add others too!
Parent - By ala [de] Date 2016-06-20 09:39
Can I get access as well?
Parent - - By Clonkonaut [de] Date 2016-06-16 10:14
I don't know if Trello really helps. It's okay, I guess, to organise an otherwise unorganised and new and inexperienced team with changing staff. But a lot of time and effort goes into structuring the development in small tasks and often much time is consumed by semi-fruitful discussion on tiny details.
Development in OC currently works a little different (but not worse, imho). You pick your task because you see a lack of functionality in the game and start working on it. Even if it's a bigger one, you don't necessarily structure it into tiny sections and open those up to discussion. You rather finish your stuff and present the more or less final product. If along the way questions arise, you are the one posing them and the team answers.
Regarding this workflow, I think your work on the liquid container branch was exemplary (I mention this in case you ever felt lost during that development). For the most part of the development, the team just trusted that you will do a good job and any questions you had, you posted on the forum and got specific feedback.
Parent - - By Marky [de] Date 2016-06-16 14:54
My idea was that others can see what everyone else is working on. If I am working on something and someone has a similar idea, then it there is a chance that we both work on the same thing without knowing about it.
Of course, for big changes we usually announce those in a separate topic.
Trello does not really support this, though.
Parent - - By Zapper [de] Date 2016-06-16 15:33
I guess that really hasn't happened since 2009, so chances are relatively low it will happen :)

By the way, our bugtracker supports that as well: the status 'assigned' means 'I am actively working on that'
Parent - - By Sven2 Date 2016-06-16 16:39

> the status 'assigned' means 'I am actively working on that'

But sometimes it means "someone randomly assigned the bug to someone else who may or may not be working on that".
Parent - - By Zapper [de] Date 2016-06-16 17:21
nooo, only Maikel does that
Parent - - By Maikel Date 2016-06-17 09:51
We need some state where it is clear that the bug is meant for a single person, if I find a bug in the new menus there is only one person who can fix that within a reasonable amount of time, just sending a reminder is not perfect in that situation.
Parent - By Zapper [de] Date 2016-06-17 11:58
Why not? It's not like changing the status of the bug to some random string would make the person work faster.
Sending a reminder, on the other hand, is the only option which actually DOES notify the person (via mail).
Parent - By Zapper [de] Date 2016-06-16 13:54
Now that the post is in the right place, I can also add my two cents about Trello :)

Trello is really cool. It helps to offer some sort of intuitive project management for people who have never even worked in a project, just because it's so easy to use and intuitive and flashy (hey, you can post images!).

But, other than unifying the communication platform for experiences developers and graphic designers and new persons, does it add a lot?
I mean, it gives us a way to classify problems and sub-problems into 'tickets' or 'cards' and then assign people to those cards, tag them, comment on them etc. But hey, we actually have already been using a system like that for probably 20 years or so: our bugtracker!
It's a really great system and can do basically everything we used on Trello and it can actually do even more! It provides a decent search, a decent history, dependencies between issues, we can mark issues for different releases, have an automatic roadmap and much more.
I'd say, at least for experiences people, it's actually more valuable than Trello.

And to the other things that the milestone project advertised, such as "less discussion because of secret development": I did not really feel like that was actually the case. That's mainly because the people who are willing to discuss a lot are also the people who belong to the developers and therefore would be part of a "secret board".
Actually the opposite - even when we met in person during the milestone project, we discussed a lot. I really don't think "secret" development helps for that.
Parent - - By Zapper [de] Date 2016-06-16 07:09
Why is this in 'internal'? I am definitely not going to post stuff here that doesn't contain passwords or so...
Parent - - By Sven2 Date 2016-06-16 13:45
I think you aren't definitely not going to post stuff here that doesn't contain passwords?
Parent - By Zapper [de] Date 2016-06-16 14:00
We all know it's dadada123 anyway
Parent - - By ala [de] Date 2016-06-16 13:54 Edited 2016-06-16 13:59


The advantage I see in Trello is the motivation boost that rises from the contributors seeing in one view what currently is in development and what has been done.
It also helps for users that don't know what to do (graphic artists ask the most), because it presents an overview of tasks that are incomplete and shows were things are missing (graphics, somtimes engine stuff, also very useful for sounds).
In OC development it occasionally happened that some graphics were requested and finally done like 6 months later. But the progress got overlooked, and some models lie around for a long time. Sometimes this is based on a misunderstanding, trello might help with that.

That said, in the milestone not everyone enjoyed keeping his work-sheets updated. If cards are outdated misunderstandings can also arise from them. Also the paid variation the Milestone uses (Trello Gold) was mentioned, but there is literally no benefit of that except for the background art. Nachtfalter mostly choose to pay just for supporting the platform, which I think is justified. There is a professional, but very expensive variant as well, called business or something which has git access and other features? But it is far too expensive, so we really shouldn't use that.

Edit: On a side note, since the Milestone board is unfortunately in German - an English board (OC Board) might help with getting new members to join. When I did advertisement on OC development earlier this year, and spoke with some developers - I kind of had to focus on German Indie Sites, because of our German work board, that was a bit unfortunate.
Parent - - By Zapper [de] Date 2016-06-16 13:58
To be honest, I think the management bonus and motivational bonus were less due to Trello and more due to YOUR (and shadow's of course) hard work. You actually looked at which models were lying around and tried to find someone do integrate them into the game.

That was not so much Trello's doing but actually your achievement :)
Parent - By ala [de] Date 2016-06-16 14:02
Maybe, but this would have been significantly harder to do without the clear structure we gained from Trello.
- By ala [de] Date 2016-06-16 14:37
Currently developing:
Underground Music metioned here and here.

Currently on hold:
Sound Review based on Apfels Feedback
Continuation of meeting Sound requests
Voice recordings for the second Clonkine
- - By Marky [de] Date 2017-05-31 20:21
Currently I am making the AI more modular (yes, even after Maikel's great effort, which is really helpful by the way).

So far:
- AI type is selectable by enum, as the TODO suggested
- it is now easier/possible to add AI to definitions other than Clonk in the editor, if the AI implementation decides so.
- the basic AI control (effect + add/set/remove-functions) are a separate definition, so you can create new AIs without inheriting everything from the definition AI.

- more modularisation, so that attack paths and guarded areas, home position, that currently are implemented in definition AI will be separate components
Parent - - By Marky [de] Date 2017-06-03 15:53 Edited 2017-06-03 19:49
The current implementation is on - you can test it in the scenario OpenClonkAI.ocs. I'd like to have this reviewed before I add any changes to the OC repository, preferrably by Maikel. I fear that bringing this back to OC is not trivial, because of the way the definitions AI_Movement, etc. add their stuff to FxAI - so in the worst case I'll just keep it in the library with no harm done.

I'd like to add a function to the AI that returns its FxAI proplist. Does that make sense? I mean, in the Definition()-calls, currently everything adds to the proplist FxAI. If this is ever renamed in the Objects.ocd then any external packs that rely on this name will fail.
Parent - - By Maikel Date 2017-06-06 10:18
I don't see how this works at the moment. Is this a separate package on top of the current AI? It would be easier to review if there is diffs to the OC repos or a bit more explanation in your post.
Parent - - By Marky [de] Date 2017-06-06 14:42
It is a seperate pack with a local test scenario (on branch “stable“). I tested that the changes there do not mess up the original AI.
What is to be reviewed? The new structure of the AI_Controller and AI_OpenClonk (local reimplementation which should replace AI later).
Parent - - By Maikel Date 2017-06-07 08:42
public func GetTimerInterval(){ return 3;} -> public func GetTimerInterval() { return 3; } in OpenClonk_AI

Otherwise these objects look fine, ideally if you port back stuff to the OC main repos, you can make a branch (from the OC main master) on your github so that I can review the diffs (which I would happily do). Currently I still have a hard time getting some sort of overview of the changes. Just in case you missed this, there is basic AI test scenario which can be used and also further improved.
Parent - By Marky [de] Date 2017-06-07 11:25
Yes, porting it back on an branch in my forked repository is what I had in mind, especially because the port is not that trivial. I used exactly the scenario that you mentioned for testing.
Parent - By Marky [de] Date 2017-06-08 21:36
Porting it back was less of a hassle than I thought. Here is the link to the branch:

Commits after "Port from AI library project" are optional.
Parent - - By Marky [de] Date 2017-06-20 18:48
Hello Maikel,

did you get a chance to look at the branch: yet? I'd like to merge this back into the main repository, soon.

Thank you for your time :)
Parent - By Maikel Date 2017-06-20 20:19
I still need to have a look at the big commit, hopefully I will find some time tomorrow.
Parent - - By Maikel Date 2017-06-21 13:37
Okay, I think all is okay.

-Do you maybe know why and when the vehicles stopped working? Would be good to fix that at some point.
-Could you test the windmill defense scenario, I did not find the time for that one yet (just play it once to test the airships).
Parent - - By Marky [de] Date 2017-06-23 22:30

>Do you maybe know why and when the vehicles stopped working? Would be good to fix that at some point

I did not bother to find out when this happened, but it is on the master branch, too. When the clonk looks for a target, it also asks whether it has a weapon for that  target. That function looks at the inventory of the clonk, but it does not take the vehicle into account, so the catapulteer never finds any targets.

>Could you test the windmill defense scenario, I did not find the time for that one yet (just play it once to test the airships).

Yep, still works.

I fixed the current problems and made som changes to logging. Please have a short look at it, and if everything is OK I will bring it back to the master branch. It is possible to merge the branch into master without pushing the custom branch?
Parent - By Maikel Date 2017-06-24 10:18
Looks good!
Parent - By Marky [de] Date 2017-06-11 21:45
Added the modular clonk model that I talked about some time ago to the resources repository. I hope it helps, if not, I'll update the instructions.
Up Topic Development / Developer's Corner / Current activity

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