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![[nl]](/mwf/flags/nl.png "Netherlands")
So the lorry will get the weight removed too then I assume? Your answer perfectly describes what's wrong with OC it's inconsistent.
It's usually a trade-off. Things should be realistic, but not at the expense of making the game less fun to play.If gameplay can be improved e.g. by giving a maximum weight to the lorry, we can certainly change that. I don't know if that's the case because I never use lorries in settlement.
![[de]](/mwf/flags/de.png "Germany")
Actually, at this point I would be for removing the weight of the lorry. My main reason here wouldn't even be consistency (because I think it's rather easy to convince a player that pushed vehicles behave differently from carried objects), but my main reason is that you only have one Clonk in most scenarios.In CR the lorry would become heavy and you would need multiple Clonks to push it. But as you already have pointed out, that's not how it currently works in OC.
I personally like the challenge to make flat landscapes with elevators if you want to use (heavy) lorries. Also with the cable cars coming at some point I would wait with changing the lorry.
I see your point. But then we should maybe communicate that better and not gradually make the lorry too hard to push (because now the player has to go from "pushable" over "very frustrating but still pushable" to "non pushable, needs elevator").We could skip the frustrating part and make it "heavy" after some threshold and then indicate that to the player (e.g. by having items stick out from the lorry).
@Zapper I agree
But I have to say I liked that about clonk, those bits of realism. It makes the game feel right.
But I have to say I liked that about clonk, those bits of realism. It makes the game feel right.
I agree. clonk can in no terms be called a realistic game. it has it's charme in being unrealistic. having the idea, that something is because of more weight in the lorry or anything similar is just for the fun of the player to think inside the game :) it doesn't need to be consistent at all, it just needs to be fun to think about the playing mechanisms and it should be easy to derive what are the rules (many items, hard to move, etc.)
- Building wall kits is bad, miss-clicks happen fast, it should be positioned by hand with the mouse and rotated with keyboard keys and then klicked, not build when the mouse button is released.
- Some levels can be zoomed out some can't and the player has no indication of if he can zoom or not.
- As I feared the E menu completely kills the gameflow in melee/arena levels the access needs to be faster and can't obstruct the view
- Swords are very overpowered now players can pretty much just mash the LMB and hack other clonks to pieces without them being able to do anything.
- Clonks fly around too much when they get hit, even when hit by something small like scrolls it's like they have been hit by an explosion.
- It's hard to tell some background items apart from the foreground items because they are too bright.
- Some levels can be zoomed out some can't and the player has no indication of if he can zoom or not.
- As I feared the E menu completely kills the gameflow in melee/arena levels the access needs to be faster and can't obstruct the view
- Swords are very overpowered now players can pretty much just mash the LMB and hack other clonks to pieces without them being able to do anything.
- Clonks fly around too much when they get hit, even when hit by something small like scrolls it's like they have been hit by an explosion.
- It's hard to tell some background items apart from the foreground items because they are too bright.
>Building wall kits is bad, miss-clicks happen fast, it should be positioned by hand with the mouse and rotated with keyboard keys and then klicked, not build when the mouse button is released.
The good thing about the current controls is that you can place wallkits very quickly, for example to break a fall or to defend from attackers. Requiring keyboard interaction would break this.
>As I feared the E menu completely kills the gameflow in melee/arena levels the access needs to be faster and can't obstruct the view
Yes. Keyboard controls will hopefully improve this at some point. It is already possible to make the inventory menu smaller.
>Swords are very overpowered now players can pretty much just mash the LMB and hack other clonks to pieces without them being able to do anything.
They're very strong against Clonks without any weapons, but I think that's fine? It's still possible to run away and use ranged weapons.
Hmm I'd rather use them to build things but ok, I get why they are build that way at least. If it's about speed maybe drawing it would be a good alternative that is fast but more precise.
I haven't been playing OC as much as you guys but it felt like the one that attacks first wins the melee. If the other has equipped a ranged weapon one miss and he's dead meat.
I already hated that in classic clonk: The one that threw stuff first, pretty much was the winner of the fight since he could pin the other down because of the extreme tumbling around.
The same seems to be the case with melee attacks now in OC, in classic clonk I always went into melee to escape from getting thrown to death.
Switching items is hell in OC and then you keep throwing them away. This is no good for fast paced melee. Sure players could invest a lot of time to be able to play more precise but most won't do this and just go for other games.
I really urge to fix the controls this alone will keep players away from the game. They should be easier to use than the classic controls which they kind of are not even tough it should be easier to play with wasd + mouse.
I haven't been playing OC as much as you guys but it felt like the one that attacks first wins the melee. If the other has equipped a ranged weapon one miss and he's dead meat.
I already hated that in classic clonk: The one that threw stuff first, pretty much was the winner of the fight since he could pin the other down because of the extreme tumbling around.
The same seems to be the case with melee attacks now in OC, in classic clonk I always went into melee to escape from getting thrown to death.
Switching items is hell in OC and then you keep throwing them away. This is no good for fast paced melee. Sure players could invest a lot of time to be able to play more precise but most won't do this and just go for other games.
I really urge to fix the controls this alone will keep players away from the game. They should be easier to use than the classic controls which they kind of are not even tough it should be easier to play with wasd + mouse.
>If it's about speed maybe drawing it would be a good alternative that is fast but more precise.
It would be just like loam then, though. I like how loam is good for precise landscaping, but wallkits just create quick walls and platforms.
>I haven't been playing OC as much as you guys but it felt like the one that attacks first wins the melee.
It's true that balance isn't very great on some scenarios. In fact, only a small set of melees is regularly played online. You should try playing with us if you have time. There are usually games in the European evening coordinated in #openclonk in IRC.
No I mean drawing as in drawing the actual line like in paint software.
>Switching items is hell in OC and then you keep throwing them away. This is no good for fast paced melee.
Mh, what exactly do you mean? I have a lot of experience now and I don't really make such mistakes often anymore - but therefore I also have a hard time imagining what the problems are for newer players.
Do you think it's too hard to select the correct item? Or is it to easy to accidentally hit the [throw] key?
>I haven't been playing OC as much as you guys but it felt like the one that attacks first wins the melee. If the other has equipped a ranged weapon one miss and he's dead meat.
From my experience, the bow is usually stronger than the sword. The javelins were pretty decent too, but now Maikel had nerfed them again so noone is using them anymore (again) :I
I missclick a lot so I throw away stuff I want to use and vice versa. It's mainly the mousewheels fault and me mistaking LMB and RMB. Would be nice if I could change it to a keyboard key but it's greyed out.....
>It's mainly the mousewheels fault and me mistaking LMB and RMB. Would be nice if I could change it to a keyboard key but it's greyed out.....
That's actually a good point.
I think it has the (technical) reason that the mouse coordinates are only sent when you use a mouse button (so using keyboard [T] for throwing wouldn't know where the mouse points to). But maybe we could just send the mouse coordinates every tick and get rid of that weird restriction? Sven? (Even if that would introduce a bit more network traffic)
You could just make a mouse click to get the coordinates without letting the mouse click affect the game. More network traffic is always bad. If I remember correctly using ticks too much is a bad design choice.
But then you'd need a mouse click again and couldn't rebind the throw key to a keyboard key (like it currently is).
It should not be an issue to just send the mouse coordinates on each keyboard press, I think. This should allow rebinding mouse keys to the keyboard.
That sounds reasonable
It is easy to throw away some weapons as the throw button is also used to cancel aiming. I'm not sure whether there is a good way of preventing this.
yeah, good point. But I am also not sure how to 'fix' that (a dedicated key to abort aiming sounds like overkill - and the mouse is still probably the intuitive thing for that)
You can click double E currently to cancel as well I guess. Throwing the occasional weapon does not seem a too big problem to me. Especially with gamepads in mind we should not inflate the number of keys used.
Actually, this isn't an issue on gamepads as we can use "half-pressed" trigger for aiming and "full-pressed" trigger for shooting (the Steam Controller has a convenient bump there, but it should also work fine without that).
Does that really work? I mean, I have never seen that used and I doubt my gamepad supports that?
Does it not have two analog triggers at the back? We can still provide a compatibility mode for gamepads without triggers, I guess, which would work just like the two mouse buttons.
I do have triggers at the back (R1, R2, L1, L2), I just didn't know they had two trigger points :o
Two of them should be analog and should have a continuous range, just like the sticks.
I didn't know that! The windows calibration only shows them as buttons, though
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