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Up Topic General / Feedback and Ideas / Variable Jump height
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- - By roboclonk Date 2017-11-12 01:12
Hey there, :)

I played OpenClonk the last few week after a long time and I realized that the clonk always jumps the same height, when I press up. I think it would be more intuitive if the clonk would jump higher as long as the jump button is pressed (Comparable to Mario). Of course there should be the jump maximum of the current jumpheight. In my opinion the clonks movement should be as dynamic as the landscapes are. There are also quite a few things I still don't like about the new steering.
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Parent - - By Sven2 [us] Date 2017-11-12 07:12
It's an interesting idea and wouldn't be too hard to build (just increased GravAccel if you don't press up, which would preserve the current maximum height).

I'm not sure how well that would work with keyboard control though. Pressing two keys at the same time is a bit awkward, especially if you want to do something else mid-air (such as pressing Space to use things, or Shift to collect something). We would have to try it in a test scenario.

What are the other things you don't like about the new steering?
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Parent - - By roboclonk Date 2017-11-12 10:33 Edited 2017-11-18 12:48

> if you want to do something else mid-air


Okay, that might be an issue, but for me I just needed the mouse in mid-air (e.g. in combat).

I found it sometimes annoying, when I couldn't get somewhere with simple low jump, when the ceiling in front of me was too low. That's just an example.

>What are the other things you don't like about the new steering?


I put them in a new thread http://forum.openclonk.org/topic_show.pl?tid=3402
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Parent - - By Sven2 [us] Date 2017-11-13 06:54
To test the jump idea, I created it in a test scenario (attached): Download

Copy this either into your user folder or clonk installation folder and start the scenario "Treasure Hunt [JumpTest]" to try it out.

You jump the default height if you hold the key, and much lower if you just tap it.

If you want to test it in other scenarios, copy this script into its System.ocg:
#appendto Clonk

public func ControlJumpExecute(int ydir, ...)
{
  if (inherited(ydir, ...))
  {
    // Add a timer to adjust vertical speed if not holding the jump key
    if (this.jumpfx) RemoveEffect(this.jumpfx);
    this.jumpfx = CreateEffect(FxJumpTests, 1, 1);
    return true;
  }
  return false;
}

static const FxJumpTests = new Effect
{
  Timer = func(int time)
  {
    if (time > 60) return FX_Execute_Kill;
    if (!Target) return FX_Execute_Kill;
    if (Target->GetProcedure() != DFA_FLIGHT) return FX_Execute_Kill;
    var ydir = Target->GetYDir();
    if (ydir > 0) return FX_Execute_Kill;
    var plr = Target->GetController();   
    if (GetPlayerType(plr) == C4PT_User)
    {
      if (!GetPlayerControlState(plr, CON_Up))
      {
        Target->SetYDir(ydir + 3);
      }
    }
    return FX_OK;
  },

  Destruction = func()
  {
    if (Target) Target.jumpfx = nil;
  }
};
Attachment: TreasureHuntJumpTest.ocs (168k)
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Parent - - By roboclonk [de] Date 2017-11-13 14:03
Wow, that was quick. :D It works quite nice for me. And the clonk immediatly feels more agile. :)
I guess more people should test it.

I made a video to show what I meant with getting stucked in the landscape.
https://youtu.be/EmlBRy89EYs
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Parent - - By Anonymous [us] Date 2017-11-14 00:02

> I made a video to show what I meant with getting stucked in the landscape. https://youtu.be/EmlBRy89EYs


I thought we had solved that by auto-scaling up if you press towards the wall?
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Parent - By roboclonk Date 2017-11-14 10:24
I guess the gap is too small to detect. I don't know. But yeah normally the clonk does auto-scaling.
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Parent - By Clonkonaut Date 2017-11-13 16:47
It takes some getting used to to keep the button pressed, but, yes, I like it. Opens up possibilities and doesn't take anything away.
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Parent - - By Maikel Date 2017-11-13 18:05
No objections at the moment, did you set the minimal jump height to this value on purpose?

I would like to test this in melees and some settlement rounds to see if you really gain something without it leading to making mistakes (i.e. not keeping the key pressed).
Reply
Parent - - By Sven2 [us] Date 2017-11-14 07:07 Edited 2017-11-19 05:55

> I would like to test this in melees


I made a mod of ChristmasHotIce here: Download

Changes:
* Added jump height change script
* Dynamite explodes with extra iron bombs
* Dynamite boxes have 40 dynamite sticks
* The bow is much faster, but has random shooting strength
* The toolbox present also spawns three presents
* If you collect a gold nugget and throw it into the lava, you can make a wish
Reply
Parent - - By Maikel Date 2017-11-14 15:58 Edited 2017-11-14 18:06
Why not push this to the main repos? Then we can test it and either keep it for 8.0 or kick it out.
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Parent - By Zapper Date 2017-11-14 16:36
I'd also be for that if it seems to feel good :)
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Parent - By Marky [de] Date 2017-11-14 18:25
I favor that option, too, but only if overloading this behaviour is easy: I want to be able to have the old behaviour in e.g. Hazard if the new one turns out to not work so well there.
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Parent - - By K-Pone [de] Date 2017-11-14 22:42

>Why not push this to the main repos?


Because copyright. Btw I made own recordings of two christmas songs so far (Jingle Bells and Silent Night). We could use these instead of the copyrighted musics which are in there right now. I also intended to replace these as soon as I'm done recording all the christmas music.

I hereby license the file K_jinglebells.ogg under the CC-BY license

I hereby license the file K_silentnight.ogg under the CC-BY license
Attachment: K_jinglebells.ogg - Jingle Bells, played by K-Pone (1958k)
Attachment: K_silentnight.ogg - Silent Night, played by K-Pone (2065k)
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Parent - - By Mupf [de] Date 2017-11-14 22:51
Neat, I'll use those in my little winter adventure :)
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Parent - By K-Pone [de] Date 2017-11-14 22:54
/me likes that :D
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Parent - - By Zapper [de] Date 2017-11-14 23:01
I doubt that an own recording of a copyrighted song would convince a lawyer that the copyright would be inapplicable
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Parent - - By K-Pone [de] Date 2017-11-14 23:34
Neither Jingle Bells nor Silent Night are copyrighted as of today since their authors are already dead long enough. And since I didn't take a recording from any orchestra or artist but rather played and recorded these songs on my own, don't violate any copyright with that.
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Parent - By Zapper [de] Date 2017-11-15 08:37
Ah! Alright :)
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Parent - By ala [de] Date 2017-11-14 23:35
There are two copyrights in place most of the time: The one on the composition and the one on the recording. Since both songs are (most likely) old enough to be public domain in terms of the composition, making an own recording does indeed  solve the issue.
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Parent - - By Maikel Date 2017-11-15 12:33
I really meant the jumping scripts only. Any hot ice mod should never go into the main repos!
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Parent - - By Fulgen [at] Date 2017-11-15 16:00

>Any hot ice mod should never go into the main repos!


Why not?
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Parent - - By Maikel Date 2017-11-15 20:31
Filesize (mostly music) versus added gameplay (~0) is not worth it.
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Parent - - By Fulgen [at] Date 2017-11-15 21:05
How about adding the scenarios as sections and putting the music inside an Extra.ocg?
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Parent - By Maikel Date 2017-11-16 10:11
That is fine.
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Parent - By Sven2 [us] Date 2017-11-16 03:28
They are the most-played scenarios right now, and each version is a little bit different!

By that logic, we should not include music at all, because it adds so little?
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Parent - - By Luchs Date 2017-11-14 22:46
I like the extra control, but it feels a bit weird in combination with the wind bag. Maybe it should stop adding gravity once you get the extra boost from the wind bag?

(The Christmas Ice changes are cool too)
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Parent - By Sven2 [us] Date 2017-11-15 02:23
But if you blast yourself sideways, you may not want that extra upwards momentum (imagine going sideways fast in a narrow cave). I think it would be weird if the default jump height changes just because you used a wind bag?
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Parent - - By Sven2 [us] Date 2017-11-18 18:23
So the main feedback from HotIce players was that they don't like it there (because they have to press too much extra).

Shall we disable it for HotIce? Disable it after WindBag use? Or don't implement it at all?
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Parent - By Marky [de] Date 2017-11-18 19:23
It might add to the complaint about controls feeling too sluggish. I can still see why you'd like to not jump as high as usually - so maybe there is another way around that, such as left or right cancelling/slowing the jump (if you jumped straight upwards)
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Parent - - By Sven2 [us] Date 2017-11-19 05:54 Edited 2017-11-19 05:56
After HotIce players complained, here is the next try: I changed the jump height to be only affected for 3 frames (instead of 60). You can still jump low, but you really have to "tap" the key. Nothing should happen in the middle of the jump any more, which was very confusing.

Low jumps look a bit weird, because the clonk goes up fast and then decelerates. So it doesn't look like a parabulum any more. But otherwise I think it's very smooth.

Other updates: [s2modv3]
* /bescherung (once per player per game) drops lots of presents
* Nugget weight increased to 10'000

Download
Attachment: ChristmasIceS2Mod.ocs (5181k)
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Parent - - By roboclonk [de] Date 2017-11-20 13:14
Now it feels very strange. Jumping that low doesn't make sense for me and it's hard to tab fast enough to do the small jump.

>Nothing should happen in the middle of the jump any more


What happened there? :o
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Parent - By Sven2 [us] Date 2017-11-21 03:10
Well, you would jump and then let go because you controlled something else. And then the jump wouldn't be as high.
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Parent - - By Clonkonaut Date 2017-11-20 14:04
This is definitely far worse than the first draft. No precision and the small jump looks like a bug because it happens so fast.

What exactly were the complaints about, by the way? Was it really about the jump itself or the combination jumping and the windbag? Did you try to modify the windbag in the way that it immediately gives full acceleration like with the old jump?
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Parent - By Sven2 [us] Date 2017-11-21 03:09
The jump itself was weird. It's difficult to steer your jump and use weapons while jumping.
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Parent - By Zapper [de] Date 2017-11-20 14:06

>I changed the jump height to be only affected for 3 frames (instead of 60)


What happens if the control rate is 4?
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Parent - - By Caesar [jp] Date 2017-11-14 15:08
I haven't tested it, but I have a question: I've always felt like it was a lot harder/more random to hit others with bows and the like. I've always blamed this on the heightened agility in OC. Does this change affect that?
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Parent - By roboclonk Date 2017-11-15 08:33
Hm, you can still jump as high as before.
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Parent - By Armin [de] Date 2017-11-20 15:41
It should be a bit harder to hit the enemy swordsman when he is forced to jump over a small hole and you shoot an arrow over his head because you aimed for the usual height while a small jump was enough for him.
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Parent - By Clonkonaut Date 2017-11-20 16:14

> I've always felt like it was a lot harder/more random to hit others with bows and the like. I've always blamed this on the heightened agility in OC.


I never felt the same, to be honest. Especially the fixed jump height made shooting the bow predictable.
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Parent - By Mupf [de] Date 2017-11-14 16:18
For me, the minimal jump height feels too high. I just barely tap the key but the clonk still moves quite far. Doesn't feel as percise as it does in good Jump 'N' Run games yet.
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Up Topic General / Feedback and Ideas / Variable Jump height
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