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- - By Clonkonaut Date 2018-03-14 15:25
You might or might now have been following the discussion over at clonkspot but during said discussion, it was mentioned that OpenClonk should not call itself a "successor" on the Clonk gaming series and is somewhat undeserving of that title (see here).

Frankly, I don't really care what we call OpenClonk. To me, it is a different game from the Clonk titles which came before. I'm willing to admit that and if that means, we are no successor, so be it. I do hope so that calling OC a "Spin-Off" game from the series is okay to parts of the old community. I am opening this thread in order to ask everyone if it is okay to do respective changes to our About page.
Parent - - By Zapper [de] Date 2018-03-14 16:20
In my opinion, OpenClonk is a clear successor of the old Clonk series.
Parent - By Clonkonaut Date 2018-03-14 16:36
Parent - - By Fulgen [at] Date 2018-03-14 16:47
The problem is that your opinion isn't the same as others' opinions =P
Parent - By Zapper [de] Date 2018-03-14 16:47
Yeah I know, so what now?
Parent - By Fulgen [at] Date 2018-03-14 16:47

>I do hope so that calling OC a "Spin-Off" game from the series is okay to parts of the old community.

Spin-Off sounds nice.
Parent - - By DaFatBrainbug Date 2018-03-14 17:46
Wow, that discussion.  oO

People who love the same game, just different aspects of it, hate each other.

As I diddn't follow that discussion, I might have somewhat of a neutral optinion.
As with movies, a good successor mostly boils down to a 'feel'. When i first started OC a few years ago, it diddn't feel right, but it was also in a very early stage.
When I started OC again 2 weeks ago, it still diddn't feel right. For me that is mostly due to the graphics and the controls.
So I looked at moddability.
Which is great, but hard to learn.
And suddendly OC feels so clonkig again. 'Cause I remembered how I started playing Clonk, diddn't like some things, started modding it and how hard it was. But rewarding, and it got easier with time.
I think this is the most important point, and I see you guys working on it. Making it easier for new players to do great things with your game.

So to me, Open Clonk is very clearly the successor, even if some of the mechanics have changed.
Parent - By K-Pone [de] Date 2018-03-14 20:19
I have a quite neutral position to that too. And honestly I see no reason for hating each other just because OC is not like CR and vice versa. OC is different to CR, that's true, and there is pretty much more diffreneces between OC and CR than between any other former Clonk titles. Anyhow this is pretty similar to car manufacturers making a new version of their cars or smartphone manufacturers making new smartphones or whatever one might want to compare it with: There are differences, but nobody tells or forces you to play the other game if you don't like it. That's simply something people have to learn (that also applies to all of the internet, not just the Clonk community).

>So I looked at moddability.
>Which is great, but hard to learn.

As with everything else this is quite easy if you get the hang of it. Unfortunately there are just very few and fairly old tutorials yet making it a bit harder to learn.

>So to me, Open Clonk is very clearly the successor, even if some of the mechanics have changed.

I think there are even good examples in Clonk's past where mechanics have changed as well.
Parent - By Maikel Date 2018-03-14 20:29
I would say that spin-off describes our project better, but in the actual sentence on our frontpage I like successor more.
Parent - By Asgarus Date 2018-03-14 20:59
For me it is definitely a successor, considering that it is based on literally the same source code.
Spin-off sounds kinda negative, given the context of the discussion.
How about you use neither of them and instead something like this:

"OpenClonk is an open source project founded on and inspired by Clonk Rage, the last official game in the Clonk series."
instead of
"OpenClonk is the Open source successor of the Clonk gaming series."

"Based on the last official game in the Clonk series, it strives to replicate and add to the unique experience the Clonk universe offers."
instead of
"It is the successor of the shareware game series Clonk and thus inherits many of its features."
Parent - By Caesar Date 2018-03-15 11:16
I can see how people expext a similar difference between OC and CR as was between CR and CE and may have their expectations betrayed. But i doubt any words we choose will make a difference.
Parent - - By Newton [de] Date 2018-03-15 19:13
You want to appease people who steal your time on the clonkspot forum by changing the text on the about page? You could also just ignore it, spares you getting angry and wasting your time on toxic people like that.

Edit: I don't have an opinion on the change in text though.
Parent - - By Fulgen [at] Date 2018-03-16 20:40

>toxic people

Are you being completly serious right now?
Parent - - By Zapper [de] Date 2018-03-16 23:56
Here are some resources about the topic of toxic/poisonous contributors to help understand what that term means in this context.

In this context, the term generally describes a person who costs more time investment than he or she produces and is thus, in total, detrimental to a project
Parent - - By Sven2 [us] Date 2018-03-17 02:41
I think there were quite a few ideas coming from the discussion. They didn't come from Glyndis original complaint, but he triggered others to bring forward some concrete ideas. So I wouldn't call his contributions toxic.

Apart from that, he's quite an established member of the community. The ban was highly uncalled for (and in my opinion should be taken back if it's still effective).
Parent - By Zapper [de] Date 2018-03-17 11:46
My post was completely without judgement. I just wanted to stress that Newton did not invent that term but rather that it's a more or less established term. And if you have followed my posts, you know that I think the same about the ban.
Parent - By Newton [de] Date 2018-03-18 22:36
Only because there was some helpful feedback scattered in those salty texts doesn't make the precincts any less toxic. In my opinion, noone should have to put up with this kind of presumptuous behavior.

The discussion on clonkspot took a more productive turn now.
Parent - - By Matthias [de] Date 2018-03-21 00:09
Succession, as a word, doesn't seem like a bad one to me: After all OC did inherit a lot from its predecessors. Now, if it inherited enough to be a - careful, I'm borrowing terms here - deserving successor may well be open to discussion, but I hope no one could argue against OC calling itself an offspring of the ealier games?
Parent - - By Fulgen [at] Date 2018-03-24 13:26
OC breaks with many old concepts, such as controls, fixed jumps etc. which haven't been changed for ages, so most old players are used to them. In my opinion, those players will be upset noticing that OC isn't a successor to CR as CR was to CE; so "spin-off", "offspring" or whatever shows that OC is not meant to replace CR, but to be a clonk-style game with other concepts.
Parent - - By Mupf Date 2018-03-24 14:40
For most games, changes like that are completely normal between successors. The commercial Clonk series just made outstandingly tiny steps between Planet, Endeavour and Rage, at least gameplay-wise.
Just because you ditch a 15+ year old jumping mechanic doesn't mean you can't call yourself a successor imo.
Parent - - By K-Pone [de] Date 2018-03-24 18:23
btw Planet, Endeavour, and Rage are all part of the Clonk 4 series. Even Clonk Rage still is a Clonk 4 major version. OC however raised that major version number. So major changes can be expected. Between each of the older Clonk games (Clonk, Clonk 2 Debakel, Clonk A.P.E., and Clonk 3 Radikal) there were also quite some changes, even in controls. If I remember correctly Clonk 3 was the first game of the clonk series that had individual Clonk controls (instead of just Captain or the rest of the crew as a group).
Parent - By Mupf [de] Date 2018-03-25 17:51
You do remember correctly.
Parent - - By Fulgen [at] Date 2018-03-26 08:26

>OC however raised that major version number.

It still uses the C4 prefix .
Parent - - By Caesar [jp] Date 2018-03-26 10:59
Sure. But is that visible unless you download the source code?
Parent - - By K-Pone [de] Date 2018-03-26 13:10
Probably not.
Parent - - By K-Pone [de] Date 2018-03-27 18:55
But that still involves coding. Players who don't ever see a tiny bit of code in OC won't notice at all.
Parent - By Caesar Date 2018-03-28 00:11
Wait, gotcha, there's the "C4AulScriptEngine linked" in the log output when you start a scenario. So I guess OC is still C4/E/R!!1

Either way, that prefix is irrelevant.
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