![[us]](/mwf/flags/us.png "United States")
Came up with this from thinking about the topic: Saving http://forum.openclonk.org/topic_show.pl?tid=441
An official OC website could work like clonk.de, the address would probably be openclonk.de, openclonk.com, or something like that.
The difference is, the OC website would have its own ccan, its own clonkforge, (this is because stuff made for OC is programmed different).
It of course would have a;
news page (this would also be the homepage)
forum page
chat (go to this page http://knucklecracker.com/forums/ and click on the chat button to see what I mean),
developers page
about OC page
ccan page (not a link to the current ccan, but a new one just for OC)
clonkforge page (not a link to the current clonkforge, but a new one just for OC)
When a person starts OC they either create a new account or log into one thats already made.
This account would not just be for the game, but would also be a profile for the official OC; forum, chat, ccan, and clonkforge.
These accounts would each have a page where their respective owner could add stuff about themselves; age, hobbies, profile picture, signature, etc, etc
When a person makes custom content, they would uploade it through the game to the OC website. When they do this, the content would appear on both the OC ccan, and their own profile page.
By the way, to see an example of what some of this stuff would look like, check out this website: http://knucklecracker.com/
If I missed something please say so, (politely).
An official OC website could work like clonk.de, the address would probably be openclonk.de, openclonk.com, or something like that.
The difference is, the OC website would have its own ccan, its own clonkforge, (this is because stuff made for OC is programmed different).
It of course would have a;
news page (this would also be the homepage)
forum page
chat (go to this page http://knucklecracker.com/forums/ and click on the chat button to see what I mean),
developers page
about OC page
ccan page (not a link to the current ccan, but a new one just for OC)
clonkforge page (not a link to the current clonkforge, but a new one just for OC)
When a person starts OC they either create a new account or log into one thats already made.
This account would not just be for the game, but would also be a profile for the official OC; forum, chat, ccan, and clonkforge.
These accounts would each have a page where their respective owner could add stuff about themselves; age, hobbies, profile picture, signature, etc, etc
When a person makes custom content, they would uploade it through the game to the OC website. When they do this, the content would appear on both the OC ccan, and their own profile page.
By the way, to see an example of what some of this stuff would look like, check out this website: http://knucklecracker.com/
If I missed something please say so, (politely).
![[de]](/mwf/flags/de.png "Germany")
Is there any problem with, when openclonk is somehow playable, that we could use the official CCAN and ClonkForge and ClonkCenter etc? The developers page is already existing on openclonk.org, and so is the "About"-Page and the forum. The only thing, I would like to have, is a web-controlable interface for your clonk-online identify. Then there could also be some money risen for webspace and so on.
Theres not a problem with openclonk.org, ccan.de, or clonkforge.net. Its just that OC content isn't quite the same as anything for the previous clonk games.
Besides, (if the devs decide to use this idea), everything would be simple, automatic, and centralized.
You would only have to create an account once, which would then work for everything, rather than having to create one for each individual website like you do for CE/CR.
By the way, added what you wanted to the description.
Besides, (if the devs decide to use this idea), everything would be simple, automatic, and centralized.
You would only have to create an account once, which would then work for everything, rather than having to create one for each individual website like you do for CE/CR.
By the way, added what you wanted to the description.
![[ca]](/mwf/flags/ca.png "Canada")
Well, I think it could be a nice addition. It is true though; OpenClonk is the biggest change in all of Clonk history. When my friend and I were testing previous Clonk Classics we couldn't help but realize how they were basically the same game, but just improved further and further. I think mixing OpenClonk content with CR & previous content would be a little strange. While CCAN does hold mods for both CE and CR, this is because CR is actually the sequel; it's simply better than Endeavour. So naturally, why host the files at a different site? I think the reasonable solution for the CCAN to host OC stuff alongside CR stuff would be to have a separated OpenClonk section of the CCAN, otherwise people looking for Rage mods will keep finding OC mods, and vice versa.However, concerning the implementation of this I wouldn't have much of a standing in this area because I don't code.
>You would only have to create an account once, which would then work for everything, rather than having to create one for each individual website like you do for CE/CR.
Then when we catch a haxxor we can ban him from everything at once! Yay!
> Its just that OC content isn't quite the same as anything for the previous clonk games.
I suggest simply asking Tyron if OC projects are allowed when the appropriate time has come. After all, he explicitly stated that non-Clonk projects are welcome to the clonkforge, so why wouldn't OpenClonk projects be?
Well, the idea is for compiling all aspects of OpenClonk playing and development into a single site, instead of 3-4 different sites.I agree with many things the builder has proposed, except for...
>When a person makes custom content, they would uploade it through the game to the OC website.
I think implementing an IRC client into Clonk was great. But using a the game's frontend to do something firefox can easily do is unnecessary. :/
The upload thing was just a thought.
Adding to the ideas the spew endlessly from my head;
This came from the hope that eventually, in OC it will be possible to get to the editor frontend from the game frontend. CR annoys me in this since the game frontend has to be closed before the editor frontend can be opened, and vise versa.
This came from the hope that eventually, in OC it will be possible to get to the editor frontend from the game frontend. CR annoys me in this since the game frontend has to be closed before the editor frontend can be opened, and vise versa.
How will you edit images, text files, or any other file in the frontend...? Have you made an object before?
What I mean is, something like how CE works, but it starts in the player version, and theres an option to developer/editor mode. You click the buttom and the program switches automatically.
The editor should remain a separate program from the frontend. If you want to run clonk at the same time you are developing, run Clonk in developer mode! An editor inside the frontend would be horrible; it would be constrained to your game's resolution and if you would need to keep switching from fullscreen to windowed to be able to edit external files concurrently.
A little insider tip: By pressing F6 you can change between fullscreen and editor. Having a stylish and fancy fullscreen menu made it impossible to stick to the old easy switch system.
The official OpenClonk website is openclonk.org, this is the official forum, the official chat is on IRC, news, developer documentation, about information is already available here, and the work involved with a download or project page is enough reason to have them hosted by an independent party.So, basically, I don't understand your request.
Yes i understand this, but OpenClonk.org is from a quick glance more for developing the game rather than a website just for it, think of how clonk.de is for previous clonk titles.
Not to say this site is boring, but its not really much to look at, (not including the attachments gallery).
Not to say this site is boring, but its not really much to look at, (not including the attachments gallery).
Sorry to say that, but OC is so far nothing more than development. That is why the website does not consist of anything else. There is just nothing of what you have mentioned - no projects, no 3rd party content, no gamers, etc.In the future this website will for sure change into more resembling a gaming website for gamers. But for now, it would pretend content that does not exist. So your request is waay to early.
Besides the websites you listed, ccan, ccf (and the chat) are by now highly specialised with a hell lot of features aiding the specific function (in case of chat it is IRC). They work perfect. So think of the disadvantages of reinventing the wheel: forcing the community to part with long-established mechanisms (okay, I admit this is an idea of OC, but for gaming content only), splitting up things which are basically belonging together, making it hard for everyone finding just one part (OC or classic Clonk) to get to know the other one (only by accidentelly clicking the wrong link or whatever - okay, you could somehow prevent this by clever design, but you definitely insert a new level of alienation from classic Clonk).
And here is the killer: this would be a massive amount of work. Even if you convinced ArneB (CCAN) and Tyron (ccf) to leave you their code, you would have to recode everything, redesign it to match the styles and after all - oh boy - you just wonder why you did not stick with the old stuff which worked well. If you do not get the code or just want to recreate everything by whatever reason, you will end up with people complaining about why this or that feature is not included and that the old system had it (after months of coding the website part). The result will be a fragmented community because those who liked the feature will stick to the old website. This will basically force you to copy every feature if you want anything but a split community and it will, again, leave you with the "oh boy"-thought.
Understand this here, I only suggest ideas though. If it really is all that work then i guess it won't happen. Thanks for the reality check.
By the way, you don't have to such a downer though. :P
By the way, you don't have to such a downer though. :P
>By the way, you don't have to such a downer though. :P
That's simply reality, man.
I'm no downer :<I just wanted to give you a reasonable and elaborate answer. So feel honoured you didn't get a "No." :P
I probably would have felt better with a simple no, but i'll try and feel honored. :P
i dont think this is nessecary. developers for oc can use ccan.de aswell as clonkforge.de, why make a new page for that when there are alrdy good visited site for that?
so that everything is in one spot, and so people dont have to log into 3 or more places for everything clonk
![[ua]](/mwf/flags/ua.png "Ukraine")
And how do you register on CCAN.de without buying Clonk Rage (or Clonk Endeavour)?
That's exactly the Problem
And i don't think that Arne or Tyron will open their Websites for an OC community.
And i don't think that Arne or Tyron will open their Websites for an OC community.
I think there is no problem at all. We just make the seperate website for OpenClonk and fill it with content from scratch. Thus it will have nothing to do with other Clonk sites (Some links from clonk.de to OpenClonk site should suffice).It may be only me but it is extremely hard to understand why do we need to stick to CCAN and other sites. They have absoulutely nothing related to OpenClonk: CR objectsw do not fit for OC, and it will be hard to find OC objects among lots of CR objects if you decide to post them there.
And yes, proprietary problem. OC is free open-source project which (in my oppinion) should have free objects database. And this database should be definitely in English from the very beginning to the very end.
Or do I misunderstand something?
Hm, I get it. The problem is I am a "rare" visitor on CCAN and CCF and I simply do not know all those nice features which are present there (really, can not think of any other usefull thing rather than a convenient way of distributing user-created content). Looks like we will anyway end up with the need for creating everything from scratch.
I agree with AlteredArmor. The fact that you need a registered CR registration for CCAN basically rules that site out for OpenClonk uploads. Another problem with CCAN is the fact that it is not very English friendly. If we're going to get more Western/English speaking players, we'll need an interface that is as English friendly as OpenClonk.org is (that's not to say it should be solely in English, but should support both languages equally).
> The fact that you need a registered CR registration for CCAN basically rules that site out for OpenClonk uploads
Yeah, but that's only the status quo. When the time (which has not yet and will not for ~a long time) has come then the CCAN might change it's registration and language policy and everything will be fine. ;)
Isn't setup that way so that people will be more likely to buy a CR registration key. From what I understand Matthes still needs the money. Not really sure, but it makes sense.
No he doesn't need money since he got a job (what is the explanation of his absence).(and the will to buy a registration will fade away anyway by the possibility to get OC for free)
So he no longer even checks in on clonk.de or OpenClonk.org?
He probably checks the clonk.de forums less frequently than he used to
Keeping clonk.de running does cost money. The league server doesn't run on a free webserver and needs occasional maintenance. However, whether or not matthes needs the money is not the primary question for the CCAN and CPPP as far as I know. It's probably more about making banning trolls easier and generally supporting the Clonk community.
> And i don't think that Arne or Tyron will open their Websites for an OC community.
Yeah, well, that's a totally reasonable opinion since both proved very hostile to the community in the past.
Only to ones with insufficient quality and an active community smaller then 20 people.
In my opinion, even if all the critics in this thread regarding the fact that reinventing the wheel is very time consuming and inefficient are true, I would still go for a "all from scratch" new ccan equivalent.
My opinion comes from what I think about an open source project, and the open source community that is behind it.
In my opinion the community should be independent from anything attached to other projects, included Clonk rage, even if it is the most source of inspiration for OC.
Open clonk in my opinion needs to have its own identity, complitely divided by any other project. It should be Open clonk, and the people developing/playing Open clonk should care about open clonk only, not legacy projects/systems.
I imagine some time in the future that visiting the openclonk.org website I will have a view about everything related to OC: the project and its development, league systems if they will exists, and yes, also a resource page where download additional modules and packs.
I would really not like the idea to have to go to external websites, maybe create an account there (I have already one, I am talking about new users), and having things mixed up with CE/CR content (and most of all the german ones, no offence there)
Yes creating a new portal for OC will be time consuming and it's the hard way to go... but in my opinion if you hope in the future to attract international, new gamers, you should stop thinking about the legacy CR community and its conventions.
Take as examples or the most successful opensource game projects around, like battle for wesnoth for examples. A new users that enter the site can have everything from there, if he wants additional content he can download them from inside the game. It's all self-contained.
I just don't like the idea of splitting resources of an already small community between different websites, and in this case using CCAN would just end up with that: OC IS NOT CR, so sites for CR's resources are not to be considered part of the OC's community at the moment.
People stating that "users will complain about the difference between CCAN and the OC's own portal" should consider more than in the long-term, the Open clonk community should live on its own, not of CR's players wanting of something new. Otherwise OC will be a dead project sooner or later.
HOWEVER
since the creation of such a portal requires a lot of time and efforts, I would surely agree of not having it has a priority at the moment, and I can surely live with short-term solutions like using existing resources (CCAN) or existing tools. But I still consider the long-term solution to have everything independent though.
My opinion comes from what I think about an open source project, and the open source community that is behind it.
In my opinion the community should be independent from anything attached to other projects, included Clonk rage, even if it is the most source of inspiration for OC.
Open clonk in my opinion needs to have its own identity, complitely divided by any other project. It should be Open clonk, and the people developing/playing Open clonk should care about open clonk only, not legacy projects/systems.
I imagine some time in the future that visiting the openclonk.org website I will have a view about everything related to OC: the project and its development, league systems if they will exists, and yes, also a resource page where download additional modules and packs.
I would really not like the idea to have to go to external websites, maybe create an account there (I have already one, I am talking about new users), and having things mixed up with CE/CR content (and most of all the german ones, no offence there)
Yes creating a new portal for OC will be time consuming and it's the hard way to go... but in my opinion if you hope in the future to attract international, new gamers, you should stop thinking about the legacy CR community and its conventions.
Take as examples or the most successful opensource game projects around, like battle for wesnoth for examples. A new users that enter the site can have everything from there, if he wants additional content he can download them from inside the game. It's all self-contained.
I just don't like the idea of splitting resources of an already small community between different websites, and in this case using CCAN would just end up with that: OC IS NOT CR, so sites for CR's resources are not to be considered part of the OC's community at the moment.
People stating that "users will complain about the difference between CCAN and the OC's own portal" should consider more than in the long-term, the Open clonk community should live on its own, not of CR's players wanting of something new. Otherwise OC will be a dead project sooner or later.
HOWEVER
since the creation of such a portal requires a lot of time and efforts, I would surely agree of not having it has a priority at the moment, and I can surely live with short-term solutions like using existing resources (CCAN) or existing tools. But I still consider the long-term solution to have everything independent though.
I don't argue about the pos and cons of independent communities here, but just in case:
what are the real benefits of "reinventing the wheel" compared to just creating a new and separate installation of CCAN and the league system, adopted to the OC design and integrated in the website?
In case all involved parties would agree on that, at least for the league it shouldn't be too difficult - support for mutliple languages and a template-system for the website-design are already in use for the clonk.de-integrated league...
what are the real benefits of "reinventing the wheel" compared to just creating a new and separate installation of CCAN and the league system, adopted to the OC design and integrated in the website?
In case all involved parties would agree on that, at least for the league it shouldn't be too difficult - support for mutliple languages and a template-system for the website-design are already in use for the clonk.de-integrated league...
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