![[ca]](/mwf/flags/ca.png "Canada")
The current state the sword/shield are in now is clearly unfinished, and I would like to offer some suggestions to the already existing plan. Using the sword or shield should interrupt walking/running. Why? There are multiple reasons:
For the sword...
-Swinging the sword currently looks very robotic, because the clonk only moves his arms when he swings the sword. In reality, a person would move their whole body with the motion of the sword.
(I would also like to say Attacking-While-Moving was done very well in Trine. However, I can only imagine the amount of work put into properly animating that.)
-Pausing the clonk's movement while he attacks creates a tactical element to fighting. Instead of just running at the enemy and wildly swinging, you need to make calculated strikes at the right times.
-Allows contextual attacks. Instead of always doing the same attack, there could be a lunging stab if the clonk is running, or normal quick strikes if the clonk is still.
-Precedent: As strange as this may initially sound, this has been done in many, very popular games (Legend of Zelda series, Super Smash Brothers series, Super Mario 64, almost-any-fighting-game-you-can-think-of, InExantros ;] ).
for the shield...
-Instead of having a complicated fatigue system, simply don't allow the player to move while using the shield. Thus effectively stopping players from "tanking projectiles", because they must lower their shield to advance upon the enemy.
Cons: No shield bash
Thoughts on this matter?
![[de]](/mwf/flags/de.png "Germany")
ack.>-Swinging the sword currently looks very robotic, because the clonk only moves his arms when he swings the sword. In reality, a person would move their whole body with the motion of the sword.
http://bugs.openclonk.org/view.php?id=327#c760
>-Pausing the clonk's movement while he attacks creates a tactical element to fighting. Instead of just running at the enemy and wildly swinging, you need to make calculated strikes at the right times.
-Allows contextual attacks. Instead of always doing the same attack, there could be a lunging stab if the clonk is running, or normal quick strikes if the clonk is still.
While I am all for trying that I am not sure whether it would make a sword too frustrating to use (compared to a bow for example)
>-Instead of having a complicated fatigue system, simply don't allow the player to move while using the shield. Thus effectively stopping players from "tanking projectiles", because they must lower their shield to advance upon the enemy.
Mh. Could work. But I still think that you should be able to let allies jump on your shield!
I will do the changes soon, when I have reinstalled Clonk and everything I need for development
PS:
>-Allows contextual attacks. Instead of always doing the same attack, there could be a lunging stab if the clonk is running, or normal quick strikes if the clonk is still.
Sounds good. Animations anyone? :] (I don't think we have a long stab yet?)
>you should be able to let allies jump on your shield!
Of course. :D
>Sounds good. Animations anyone?
I could well enough. However, remaking the animation for the opposite hand is a real show-stopper for me. I've already planned to create an animation for the current 'downward thrust', but have been procrastinating because of the complication with R/L hand animations.
![[pl]](/mwf/flags/pl.png "Poland")
In reality not only you can attack while moving, but it also adds more force to the swing.
If it's too much work to do complete attack-when-moving-animation, let's just stick to the current system.
The best thing about OC, in my opinion is the feeling of 'freedom' - you can jump, dig and shoot as you wish, in what direction you want, and as far as you want.
On a side note, the only thing I dislike curently is stopping when landing. It should still be so, but only for for giant falls, otherwise the clonk should just keep running, or (in case of very low or quite high fall distance) do a roll.
Also, slowing down while aiming with a spear is a bit unrealistic, and a bit annoying. As for musket, I'd slow down aiming clonk even more(or perhaps just make the cursor shake when moving)
If it's too much work to do complete attack-when-moving-animation, let's just stick to the current system.
The best thing about OC, in my opinion is the feeling of 'freedom' - you can jump, dig and shoot as you wish, in what direction you want, and as far as you want.
On a side note, the only thing I dislike curently is stopping when landing. It should still be so, but only for for giant falls, otherwise the clonk should just keep running, or (in case of very low or quite high fall distance) do a roll.
Also, slowing down while aiming with a spear is a bit unrealistic, and a bit annoying. As for musket, I'd slow down aiming clonk even more(or perhaps just make the cursor shake when moving)
>In reality not only you can attack while moving, but it also adds more force to the swing.
Yes, but you do not continue running after swinging.
I think 'freedom' isn't a very good argument against this. Like I said, many games have done this before (most notably Super Smash Bros.), and the majority of players haven't even realized this was the case because it was done so well. It is easier to implement this system of "movement interruption" well than it is to implement a "move & attack" system (which I have only seen done well in 1 platformer to date).
If you've played Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess, you may notice the combat is quite 'dumbed down' since Ocarina of Time. I believe this is at least in part due to the fact they allow Link to run & chop at the same time. This allows link to be basically a lawnmower that just plows through enemies without need to have actual 1 vs. 1 fights (like there so often was done in Ocarina of Time to such excellent effect). The animations in Twilight Princess also looked much less 'powerful' than they did in the N64 titles due to only using the upper body to animate sword swings.
As for the clonk being stopped after falling a good distance, I can see your point. We should discuss if there is a better solution for that (in a different topic ;] ).
The ClubBrainstorming.
The current implementation of the club is very, very lackluster. You can actually do nothing with it.
If you increased the melee damage it would be a Sword#2, if you improve the handling with flinging objects from your inventory you have a Catapult#2. If you lower the range of those objects to make sure it is not a Catapult#2 it is so weak that it makes no sense using it at all.
Since I don't really know how to improve the club without breaking something else, I am asking right now what to do with it.
My current suggestion would actually be to throw the club out and replace it with something else that actually has a different playstyle from the sword AND can be used in melees
(Another idea would be to decrease the range of flinged objects but make them deal a fixed amount of damage. But that doesn't really seems to fit the physics and all.)
Any ideas either for changes to the club or for another melee weapon?
(I consider that to be a change to the club, and not an additional feature *cough*)
Well, as I said, I think the club can have a place as a melee weapon which is equal to the sword but weaker and has the extra feature of batting objects in a certain direction (e.g. those you just threw in the air). If you think this is not possible without making it either useless or too strong (as you indicated), I don't have a problem with you shoving it into Tests.c4f. (forgot to write that)
Well, at the moment we only have melee scenarios. And at the moment there is no reason to chose a club over any other weapon.(And for me that would be reason enough to throw it out and wait until we have settlement scenarios and everything where you could use the club for mining or other stuff)
Yeah, Mimmo_O and I were discussing over the club while playing a few rounds.I came to the conclusion that the club ought to knock players farther away; currently it moves them by around 10px. The windjar will not affect players substantially (or at all?) unless they are mid-air. Therefore, if the club actually has a real function of batting players away from you (something currently only single-use explosives can do), it could be used in conjunction with ranged weapons for a useful effect.
I would also like to comment that using the club as a tool to propel objects from the player isn't a very good argument, because the windjar does this, does it easier, and propels the object much more accurately than the club can.
The club could work at a slightly larger distance than the sword, so you would use it to club away people who have a sword (or sword+shield) to utilize your ranged weapons on him to do damage. Or just to defend a base from intruders.I actually like the idea of clubbing people for like ~600 range. Even if it's not realistic, it's cool!
That would probably be the only possibility to make the current club viable
Well, it definitely ought to knock others far enough away to be useful. Though I wouldn't go as far as 600px... just looking in game, ~100px seems reasonable.
And why would you want to do that? The time you need to load your bow is probably higher than the time the enemy needs to get back at you
Currently, it is possible to run away from an enemy while shooting at him (if you shoot while jumping you aren't slowed down). The club would make it easier to keep enemies at bay than simply out-maneuvering an enemy.Also, one thing the club should have over the windjar: the windjar can't actually stop things flying directly towards you unless they are moving relatively slowly, it can only slow them down. It should be possible to completely deflect projectiles that are coming towards you, sending them back in the opposite direction. If this is possible now, it likely isn't easy to do in game.
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