sounds interesting, but bears the danger of people creating different players, one for melees, one for parcours etc. and why let the player only change the distribution of the points when a clonk levels up? i think, IF it will be implementd, points should be change able anytime outside of a game.

also, some values should not be changeable, e.g. walking speed.

Yes, like Mimmo said - it sounds interesting but definitively does tempt players to make special clonks, specially for one type of gameplay.

That's a small amount of text, after we spend so much time talking.

I will post a big post in the next days which will hopefully sound more enthusiastic (My windows is broken, and I use the "Safe Mode" currently). There were several basic ideas involved in this concept:
-Since Open Clonk currently has no clonk classes we came up with the idea that players could distribute (a static amount of) points for each of his clonks. If a clonk has many swim points it automatically has fewer skills in all of the other talents, and therefore becomes some sort of "Aquaclonk".
-In The Base and after relaunching the Player can swap his Clonk against another one which may be more suited.
-In addition a Player could hire mercenaries which fit to the scenarios, however they won't belong to the players crew and the clonks won't get experience points. A player which trains his crew can specialize all of his clonks (with each level up he should be able to swap one skill point for another). He will have only one advantage compared to a new player (which playes with merchants(=fair crew revived)): That's the knowledge of his clonks and their abilities, which the new player has to look at first before he hires a merchant (-half a second of speed ingame). With this system we aimed for the first sentence "more individuality of a player's clonk" and of course for more individuality for the player files.

The further discussions weren't finished:
There were a few points which we started quarreling about:
1. I wanted to link items and vehicles to the basic skills of a Clonk, example given: Spear throwing needs a minimum of strength 4 and 5 in throw. A lorry should be pushed by strong clonks, and not by weak ones (although each clonk should be able to do the basic skills a clonk usually does, like digging, building etc.).
2. The graphical appearance is another thing: It should be obvious if the approaching enemy is knight or mage, or mix of both of them.
3. Balancing of the whole thing will become difficult, especially with additional object packs.
4. The whole concept is a step which emphasizes the RPG- and the strategy elements in Clonk. The third mayor one (Jump and Run) could become weaker if the balancing goes wrong.

Pluto can explain the concept further to the CM participants. I'll do a longer explanation soon.

Aim:
The aim is to improve strategy, to improve the players crew and clonk individuality and to redesign the "clonk classes".

Basic Idea:
The Basic Idea is this: Clonk clans fight against each other with individuals - the players are not the clonks they solely command them.

Basic Properties:
Every Clonk gets a set ob Basic Properties depending on which his basic and his special abilities will be determined.

Note: Just examples. I'm working on the maths (relations between values) but I'm not finished.

Let's look on the Profile of a normal clonk:
(Minimum is 3, Maximum is 10 - Each Clonk has a Total of 25 Points)
Strength (Fight, Push, Climb, Hangle, Dig):  IIIII I
Energy (Life Energy):        IIIII I
Endurance (Breath, Climb, Hangle, Swim):  IIIII I
Dexterity (Climb, Swim, Hangle, Objects):  IIIII I

If he saves Points here (example clonk saves 1 Point) he can us them in the special section. Each point saved here will give 2 Points in the Special Section (just an example).

Basic Skills (everyone can do it):
(automatically calculated)

(Minimum is 1, Maximum is 3)
Walk            II
Jump            II
Dig            II
Build            II
Climb            II

Special Skills:
(Minimum is 0, Maximum is 10)
The example clonk spent 2 additional Points on Run.

Calculated automatically but can be boosted:
Swim (Minimum is here 3 - Basic Value could be
(Endurance+Dexterity)/2)       IIIII I
Run (Example, Autocalc could be Walk*2)  IIIII I
Hangle  (Value 0-3, autocalc: Dig/2)    I

Magic (Sorcerer)        -

The Profile of an Aquaclonk could look like this:
Strength (Fight, Push, Climb, Hangle, Dig):  IIII
Energy (Life Energy):        IIIII
Endurance (Breath, Climb, Hangle, Swim):  IIIII III
Dexterity (Climb, Swim, Hangle, Objects):  IIIII II

used 24/25 Points

Basic Skills (everyone can do it):
Walk            II
Jump            II
Dig            I
Build            I
Climb            I

Special Skills:
The Aquaclonk spent 2 additional Points on Swim.

Swim             IIIII IIII
Run             IIII
Hangle            -

Magic            -

The Profile of a Hydroclonk would be further special:
(Minimum is 3, Maximum is 10 - Each Clonk has a Total of 25 Points)
Strength (Fight, Push, Climb, Hangle, Dig):  III
Energy (Life Energy):        III
Endurance (Breath, Climb, Hangle, Swim):  IIIII IIIII
Dexterity (Climb, Swim, Hangle, Objects):  IIIII III

used 24/25 Points

Basic Skills (everyone can do it):
(automatically calculated)

(Minimum is 1, Maximum is 3)
Walk            I
Jump            I
Dig            I
Build            I
Climb            I

Special Skills:
The Hydroclonk spent 1 additional Point on Swim and 1 on Hangle.

Swim              IIIII IIIII
Run             II
Hangle            I

Magic             -

Further Example: The Profile of a Knight:
Strength (Fight, Push, Climb, Hangle, Dig):  IIIII IIII
Energy (Life Energy):        IIIII III
Endurance (Breath, Climb, Hangle, Swim):  III
Dexterity (Climb, Swim, Hangle, Objects):  IIIII

25/25

Basic Skills (everyone can do it):
Walk            II
Jump            II
Dig            II
Build            I
Climb            I

Special Skills:
Swim              IIII
Run             IIII
Hangle            -

Magic             -

Example: Mage
Strength (Fight, Push, Climb, Hangle, Dig):  IIII
Energy (Life Energy):        IIIII III
Endurance (Breath, Climb, Hangle, Swim):  III
Dexterity (Climb, Swim, Hangle, Objects):  IIIII

20/25

Basic Skills (everyone can do it):
Walk            II
Jump            II
Dig            I
Build            I
Climb            I

Special Skills:
10 Points used on Magic
Swim              IIII
Run             IIII
Hangle            -

Magic            IIIII IIIII

Example: Assasin (new class)
Strength (Fight, Push, Climb, Hangle, Dig):  IIIII II
Energy (Life Energy):        III
Endurance (Breath, Climb, Hangle, Swim):  III
Dexterity (Climb, Swim, Hangle, Objects):  IIIII II

20/25

Basic Skills (everyone can do it):
Walk            III
Jump            III
Dig            II
Build            I
Climb            I

Special Skills:
10 Points used on Stealth
Swim              IIIII
Run             IIIII I
Hangle            -

Magic             -
Stealth            IIIII IIIII

Example: Paladin
Strength (Fight, Push, Climb, Hangle, Dig):  IIIII II
Energy (Life Energy):        IIIII II
Endurance (Breath, Climb, Hangle, Swim):  III
Dexterity (Climb, Swim, Hangle, Objects):  IIIII

22/25

Basic Skills (everyone can do it):
Walk            II
Jump            II
Dig            II
Build            I
Climb            I

Special Skills:
Swim              IIII
Run             IIII
Hangle            -

Magic             IIIII I

Example: Settler
Strength (Fight, Push, Climb, Hangle, Dig):  IIIII I
Energy (Life Energy):        IIII
Endurance (Breath, Climb, Hangle, Swim):  IIIII II
Dexterity (Climb, Swim, Hangle, Objects):  IIIII III

25/25

Basic Skills (everyone can do it):
Walk            III
Jump            III
Dig            II
Build            II
Climb            III

Special Skills:
Swim              IIIII II
Run             IIII II
Hangle            I

Magic             -

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How does this system influence the players?

1. Developement:
The player will develop a crew. It should never be more worth starting a new playerfile (like some people do in rpgs, because they skilled their heros wrong).

Each 10000Exp a clonk get's the power to exchange 1 point for another. Developing your own crew therefor becomes slow and challenging, if a player doesn't use his point and gains 10000Exp again simply nothing happens with the clonk (you can't store change-points up). He can develop him further the next time he gains 10000Exp. Using this system a newbie will notice "ah Tsular is good with swimming" and over time he can develop this clonk towards an hydroclonk if he wants to.

2. Optical Appearance:
To some extent the developement of a clonk should be displayed. A clonk which is good with swimming won't wear shoes and a clonk which can perform a few bits of magic carries a staff or a hood.

3. Mercenary:
In each scenario where special clonks are of use, a player can choose to hire mercenary (correct plural?) instead of playing with clonks from his crew. He will not gain Experience points for playing mercenary but their skill can be of use, for example if your own mages all are dead you've to use a mercenary. Mercenary could be global, the first to hire "Zwirbel" will get him. This system will replace the Fair-Crew system.

4. Choose your Clonks:
After buying a Clonk or after relaunching a menu opens in which the players Clonks are listed and from which he can choose. With the help of the Clonk-title pictures he can get a fast impression on the skills a clonk could have, by holding the mouse buttton on this clonk his skill table will show. Below the list of the Clonks from the players crew a seperated line will show the alternative mercenary (with pictures and skilltable again). You won't be able to choose a clonk which is currently in use of course, same for dead ones. Third option: A normal clonk should be recruitable as well (which will join the crew).

5. Swap:
The Base is a point where you can swap clonks between the game and your player file. This will add strategy to the game.

6. Kill The Captain Revived:
One Clonk could be captain, enriched with additional skill points. The captain should be choosen in the lobby or ingame in a similar menu like the choose-clonks one.
In the new version of the Physical.Txt the additional entry for a captain candidate could be:

[If-Captain]
Strength: +1
Energy: +2
Endurance: -1
Dexterity: +1
Special:
Run: +2

Preferable Captain-candidates should be in the front of the clonklist in the captain menu. If a mercenary should be captain remains undiscussed. The captain should be choosable in the lobby as well to save ingame time. Activating and deactivating clonks in the lobby would taste yummy as well.

7. Extension Packs:
An extention pack would have to declare a new ability like stealth in the example of the assasin and use points for this skill instead for others. If the extention pack uses super hero abilities more than 25 ability points can easily be granted with a similar entry as the "If-Captain entry":

[If-HeroPack]
Fight+5
Swim+5
Magic+10
etc.

With this approach you can use your mage in normal magic melees and in super-hero magic melees, without the need of two different Clonks. This will keep the player file clean further (the mercenary will as well).

8. Building Scenarios:
Like Zapper pointed out - in our everyday online melee we won't want different clonks because they would be unfair and if they would not be, balancing would become too difficult. A scenario needs two new powers.
First: Exclude Clonks which won't fit into the scenario. Example Map Stylands: Exclude: Aquaclonks, Magic, Special-abilities. Favour: Knight-types.
Second power will be to preset mercenary types for certain scenarios which fit the style which the author intended.

9. Items Vehicle and other Stuff:
The use of Items and vehicles would not be scripted like in CR with: CanUse() { return(FLNT); } or some similar approach. Now this is possible:
Musket: Minimum dexterity: 6; Bow: Minimum dexterity: 5; A strong but rude knight can't handle fine mechanics, but he can use the big axe which needs strength: 8. If the Clonk using the items doesn't fit, he can still use them with a bit of penalty (like slower hitting with the axe or less damage and range with the spear or less accuracy with the bow etc.). Nearly anything is possible: Crystals could be absorbed with Magic: 6 for example. The speed with which a lorry is pushed should obviously depend on strength like the breath of a Clonk depends on Endurance.

------------------------------------------

Benefits:
1. The player is able to train his clonks without making them more powerful.
2. Crews get individuality and will be less crowded.
3. Classes in Clonk are modernized and mixtures are easily possible.
4. Swapping Clonks will add strategy to base and relaunch scenarios.
5. Mercenary are cooler as fair crew.
6. The whole system is a nice base for rpg projects as well.

Unfinished discussions between Shadow, pluto and me: Point Nr2 and Point Nr9.

Edit:
As I correct thousands of mistakes I've noticed that my English skills have rotten.. if you see more mistakes please point them out - I need a bit of coaching.