Not logged inOpenClonk Forum
Up Topic General / Feedback and Ideas / Skill your Clonk!
- - By Bleeze [de] Date 2009-04-29 19:47
Hello everybody!
I suggest the most of you know the type of online-games became the most popularest during the last few years: so-called "MMOGs", Massive Multiplayer Online Game. In these MMOGs, you have just one character with which you are movung around the game-world. What's special about these games is that the characters are different skilled.
And that's you could use for "OpenClonk".

Each character has a lot of so-called "skills". These are different, but in much cases, the skill is a type of attack. This could be a simple drub, or a flash or a firestorm. Its a little bit like the mage clonks.
But there are more skills. A skill can raise your health, it can make you running faster or you need less time for build something.
Usually, you get a certain number of "skillpoints". That prevents that you are a superman in everything.
So, you can put these skillpoints on the different skills. You could be a mage who destroys things or someone who is good at crafting.

I think it would be very cool when you have this skill-system in clonk. Since yet, every clonk get xy more hp and become xy better in fights.
With this system, you could build something like a "emotional relationship" to your clonk. That sound perhaps a little bit gay, but I think it would be very funny. The way in which the clonks very mustn't be too big.

There are two ways to raise a skill: One is the one with the skillpoints you get when your clonk reach the next rank.
The other is that your skill in a thing become higher when you do the thing. When you swim around a lot, by-and-by, you will swim faster and faster.

I hope that one time, I will have perhaps my build-clonk, or everybody will be afraid of my fast battle-clonk =)

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Ich kann mir denken dass das nicht erwünscht ist, aber ich kann mir vorstellen, dass ich erstens meine Ideen so besser rüberbringen kann, und es zweitens für die meisten bequemer ist ;-)

Ich denke die meisten von euch kennen den Online-Game-Typ, der die letzten Jahre am berühmtesten wurde: sogenantne MMOGS.
In diesen hat man nur einen Charakter, mit dem man in der Spielwelt herumläuft. Was an den MMOGs besonders ist,  ist, dass alle Charaktere unterschiedlich "geskillt" sind.
Und das könnte man auch für OpenClonk nutzen.

Jeder Charakter hat eine Menge sogenannter "Skills". Sie unterscheiden sich, aber in vielen Fällen sind es Attacken. Das kann ein einfacher Schlag, ein Blitz oder ein Feuersturm sein. Es ist ein bisschen wie mit den Zauberclonks.
Aber es gibt noch mehr Skills. Ein Skill kann die Gesundheit erhöhen, man kann schneller rennen oder schneller bauen.
Normalerweise bekommt man eine gewisse Anzahl an "Skillpunkten" Das sol verhidern dass man supergut in allem ist.
Also kan man diese Skillpunkte auf die verschiedenen Skills setzen. Man kann ein Magier sein, der ales zerstört, oder jemand, der gut Sachen herstellt.

Ich denke es wäre echt cool, wenn man das Skill-System in Clonk hätte. Bis jetzt bekommt jeder Clonk xy mehr HP und kann xy besser kämpfen. Mit diesem System könnte man etwas wie eine "emotionale Bindung" zu seinem Clonk herstellen. Das hört sich vielleicht etwas gay an, aber ich denke es wäre echt lustig. Die Clonks müssen sich ja nicht so sehr unterscheiden.

Es gibt zwei Arten, den Skill zu steigern: Zum einen mit den eben genantnen Skillpunkten, die man erhält, wenn man den nächsten Rang erreicht.
Dann gibt es die Möglichkeit, dass der Skill nur steigt, wenn man bestimmte Sachen tut. Wenn man die ganze Zeit rumschwimmt, steigert sich der Schimm-Skill, man schwimmt schneller und hat mehr Luft.

Ich hoffe dass ich eines Tages vielleicht meinen Bau-Clonk habe, oder jeder Angst vor meinem schnellen Kampf-Clonk haben wird =)
Parent - By Zapper [de] Date 2009-04-29 20:23
I guess that would mostly lead to unfair melees :)
(Remember: in mmorpgs the high-level players usual don't fight with the low-level ones)
Parent - By MimmoO Date 2009-04-29 20:52
I like your idea. but i think, that we could handle the skills like in mmogs: normal clonks can only learn "build, HP, fight" and such things, while Mages (if there will be mages) can learn their spells as you said, additionally to the normal spells. so special clonks can learn special skills. if a clonk is naturally better (like knights have more attackpower than others) their spell "attack power increase" could increase the strenght more than for usual clonks.

another idea is, that items could increase those spells. we could make more weapons than in original clonk (sword and axe, wuhu!), so each weapon boosts Attack different, or adding additional skills (Axe adds "Bash" for example).
also mages could use those items, like in M&M: different staffs allow different skills.

so all in all i like your idea verry much. this would make espacily fighting verry more dynamic and fun.
mfg Mimmo
Parent - - By Newton [es] Date 2009-04-29 21:10
What (non-magic) skills exactly do you have in mind? Can you give some examples?
Parent - - By MimmoO Date 2009-04-30 12:23
well, i think that he mind of:

More HP - Increases HP
More Armor - Increases Ground armor
Tool-Master - Increases Cutting Trees, Digging maybe? and Building
can be upgraded to:
  - Woodcutting master - Increases cutting again
  - Hammer master - ...
  - Shovel Master - ...

i dont know more now.
but those could be some...
Parent - By Enrique [de] Date 2009-04-30 14:06
Maybe add
Scale/Hangle-Master - Increase Scale-/Hanglespeed
Swimm-/Dive-Master - Like a Fish! :D
Reply
Parent - - By Enrique [de] Date 2009-04-30 08:36
The disadvantage of Idea 1 is that with the editor, it is easy to cheat the clonk up, so they have, although they never played much, may better clonks then those, who played for thousand hours. The disadvantage of Idea 2 is, that you only need while settling for example let one of your clonks swimming/scaling (if there you can play more then one), or if you are going to lunch, you don't stop the game, but instead let your clonk swimm/scale while having lunch.
So this nice idea would be a way to cheat :S
Reply
Parent - - By Shadow [de] Date 2009-04-30 10:13
yeah you'r right Enrique. mh ... maybe we can use this for campaign oder adventure szens?
Parent - - By Bleeze [de] Date 2009-04-30 12:48
Lol, I wanted post the idea before I read the post over me...

So, its already said: Its possible that the skills of a clonk just stay for one round.
Or its possible too, that the clonks get their point not by level-up but they have it just if you create them.

What u said about cheating: If you wont implement skills or characters becoming stronger by giving time in them, you cant create a game.
The fear about cheating souldn't be so big.
All the other games invented something against cheating too...

//hm now i understand the structure in this forum^^
sry for the wrong-placed post
Parent - By Zapper [de] Date 2009-04-30 15:01

>All the other games invented something against cheating too...


Yeah, like not being open-source ;)
Parent - - By Isilkor Date 2009-04-30 16:04

> All the other games invented something against cheating too...


MMOGs usually store the character data on the server. This is obviously not feasible for Clonk.
Reply
Parent - By Günther [de] Date 2009-04-30 19:21
Don't dismiss that option that fast. Storing the character data on the server and using that for a multiplayer round is trivial. You only have to invent a secure mechanism to make changes to the data. An "obvious" method is a web interface coupled with the clonk.de league, using the registration fees to pay an operator to watch game records and ban cheaters.
Reply
Parent - - By MimmoO Date 2009-04-30 12:25
What about saving Points only for the actual game? so you would watch for your knight more than earlier:
youve played your knight in a melee and killed some enemys. in CR you could say: okay, he dies, ill buy another one wich is exactly  the same.
but in OC you would say: oh, i hope my knight wont die... he is one of my best knights this round! i need him to fight the evil other superknight!
Parent - - By Enrique [de] Date 2009-04-30 14:04
Well this is what i already in CR say. "Damn they killed Thor! Now i'll take revenge!"(Thor is my best Clonkknight)
So there would be no difference.
Reply
Parent - By MimmoO Date 2009-04-30 14:19
oh^^ i always play with FairCrew, i think you would agree with me then. and when all clonks start with the same Settings, and they get stronger with killing, my idea would be right^^
Parent - By Simsi [de] Date 2009-05-01 17:09
But then I think clonks must reach relatively fast a higher level, so that when they're all at the same level at the beginning of the scenario, they can still reach high levels in this scenario.
Parent - - By LoneS [fi] Date 2009-05-01 15:57
My opinion: Screw the so called "rpg"-elements.
Parent - By Loriel Date 2009-05-02 13:55
Seconded \o/
Parent - By dan-dan [de] Date 2009-05-24 09:54
do you think of sth like in exantros?
(with other skills)
Reply
Parent - - By kevda [de] Date 2009-05-27 16:41
You can make this via Scripts on your own scenario. I dont think that this should be in any clonk-scanario.
Parent - By Asmageddon [pl] Date 2009-06-22 19:40
If there will be any RPG map, then on that map it would make sense. Otherwise not.
And creating RPG maps is good idea in my opinion
Reply
Parent - - By ker [lv] Date 2009-06-26 06:44
reading through the whole thread I have a revised suggestion:

first of all: like guenther said, store the data on the server. Since all players in a game would commit the data of all players to the server, any modifications could be quickly found (and detected which client had a modified version)

second: time shouldn't only increase your skills depending on much used actions, it should also decrease your skills based on little used actions. This would never allow anyone to create a super-clonk. e.g. a warrior clonk would end up completely failing at chopping wood (maybe even get a penalty which will make him worse at chopping wood than a new clonk)

third:
as has been said before, it will create a huge gap between players that play a lot and players that play not so much. To keep that from becoming a huge problem, the game could just rescale the skills temporarily for each game. So if a high-level player plays w/ a player that has never played before, it will only appear as if the high-level player is a few levels above the new player. In a game with many players the differences will become more obvious, but if it's a team-game, the game can be balanced by putting high-level players with low-level players.

fourth: The difference between levels should be very minimal anyway. So a clonk that is a level higher than another would only safe a few frames of chopping time, run just ever so slightly faster... etc. Only every so many levels would you get an actual skill-point to distribute (get one more wood from any tree, get more resources when mining, armor upgrade, jump-height upgrade, shop cheaper, sell more expensive), skill points can also be used on actions that your clonk never does, so you can balance your clonk that way.

fifth: it should be very had to keep a high level. so if your clonk gets killed without having done much for a skill in the current game, that should lower the skill pretty quickly.
at the same time it should be quite easy to catch up with players. so if you play with high-level players you will get a "bonus" (no demotion for high level players thou, that would just discourage them from playing with low level players)
Parent - - By Asmageddon [pl] Date 2009-06-26 13:08
I would suggest something like that - players begin with all skills at level 100%, and if there will be let`s say 20 skills, then used skills increase with n*120% (where n is number of skills), and level of all other skills will decrease by 1, that way all players will be specialised, and higher-level player will be better in one(maximum 2) skills, and a bit worse in other. And what do you think about every player having two-three clonks?
Reply
Parent - By ker [lv] Date 2009-06-26 17:21
well... in settlement I never have more than 5 clonks... just because it's so riddiculous to think anyone can purposefully control more than 3 clonks at a time (the other two are backup/woodcutters/constructors)
anyone disagreeing can feel free to prove me wrong... but you can't mine, transport stuff off and hunt at the same time... not without killing at least one of the clonks in the process :P
Up Topic General / Feedback and Ideas / Skill your Clonk!

Powered by mwForum 2.29.7 © 1999-2015 Markus Wichitill