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- - Date 2011-07-25 19:59
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Parent - - By Newton [de] Date 2011-07-20 00:44
The mac version is working?? :-O

So the only thing that is missing is an automatically created cross-compiled build so that it can be included on the download page?
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Parent - - By Heyub [us] Date 2011-07-20 04:25
Wait, I forgot to ask, is the mac version intel or PPC?  Because my mac is one generation short of be an intel.
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Parent - By timi [de] Date 2011-07-20 09:43
It's Intel.
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Parent - - By PeterW [gb] Date 2011-07-20 10:53
Of course? We even have a native developer mode now! Shadered landscape also works without changes, I checked that. Only the controls seem to be a bit wonky at times - I can't win sword fights :(
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Parent - - By Caesar [de] Date 2011-07-20 11:41
New bug found. Peter can't win sword fights.

Remember when you got castle plans in Sty?
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Parent - - By Sven2 [de] Date 2011-07-20 12:51

> Remember when you got castle plans in Sty?


He always just threw the sword away. I presume he's doing the same in OC, though it's a bit more difficult here as you have to hold down shift to do it :o
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Parent - By PeterW [gb] Date 2011-07-20 15:09
Why throw away a perfectly good sword? You obviously sell it! Gives you at least one extra conkit!
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Parent - - By PeterW [gb] Date 2011-07-20 15:08
Well, being newby-ish and all, I try to keep klicking fast. The Mac input stuff seems to not cope with that well. The Clonk ends up just doing nothing.
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Parent - - By Zapper [de] Date 2011-07-20 15:27
I think I remember I heard something like that before - maybe from Mortimer?
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Parent - By Mortimer [de] Date 2011-07-20 17:19
Maybe it would be better to switch back to using the SDL stack ^^'
I heard Ryan Gordon is going to fix lots of bugs for the OSX version..
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Parent - - By Newton [de] Date 2011-07-20 12:10
So the only reason for mac builds not being available on the download page is that noone had the time yet to set up an automatic cross-compiled build system? Or are there other things blocking this (such as: you can't cross-compile mac builds, I am not very deep in this materia)?
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Parent - - By PeterW [gb] Date 2011-07-20 13:16 Edited 2011-07-20 13:18
Well, it is not trivial, as far as I know. A bit of Google usage found me this - and as a GUI application we will have to worry about this section. At minimum we will have to pre-compile resources.

If we still depend on SDL we also might have to worry about how to package that. Just as Windows users, Mac people typically don't appreciate having to install libraries. App bundles make this relatively straightforward (I wrote a quick script for CR) - but I'm not sure that it would be as easy for cross-compilation.
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Parent - - By Günther [de] Date 2011-07-21 01:27
As far as I know and your links tell me, Clonk falls into the category of "simple application bundle". I think the CR tarballs (complete with SDL) were even created on Linux after the binary compiled with XCode was transferred via SVN, so the actual compilation step is the only missing part for nightly builds.
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Parent - - By PeterW [gb] Date 2011-07-21 10:38
Well, if I remember correctly, the problem is that Mac binaries need their library locations hard-coded, so you really need otool in order to embed the library. I'm pretty sure that CR was never cross-compiled. But yes, once we get rid of SDL, we might have a decent chance of making this work.
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Parent - - By Sven2 [de] Date 2011-07-21 10:50
Does that mean the Mac port cannot have any external non-OS library references at all?
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Parent - By PeterW [gb] Date 2011-07-21 11:21
Well, you can have libraries in your application bundle and globally-installed ones... But I think you have to change both the library as well as the program to convert between the two. Something like that.

Interestingly enough, I can't find the script I wrote back then. Maybe I'm just imagining things.
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Parent - - By Newton [de] Date 2011-07-21 12:45

> I'm pretty sure that CR was never cross-compiled.


CR also didn't have such a leet autobuild system as we have :->. Does something like a mac server exist?
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Parent - - By PeterW [gb] Date 2011-07-21 14:07
Well, I don't think the leetness of it all was really what kept it back from cross-compiling. Not to argue the point that the current build system is great - now if only we had active engine development, right? ;)

I have started this morning to try to get a cross-compilation setup running on my Linux laptop using the "I'm cross" scripts. We'll see whether this gets us somewhere.
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Parent - By Newton [de] Date 2011-07-21 16:10
Just wanted to note that at this point ;-) Look at it this way - this is one more thing that makes actual engine development easier@our autobuild system
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Parent - - By Mortimer [de] Date 2011-07-21 10:16
At the moment, the Mac build does not depend on SDL and just uses NSOpenGLView and Cocoa APIs. But maybe it should.. for supporting game controllers and being less of a maintentance hassle and whatnot.
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Parent - - By PeterW [gb] Date 2011-07-21 21:09
Using Cocoa still seems like the right way to go. By the way: I have now a somewhat working cross-compilation setup (hey, I got CMake to say okay!) but it is for OS X 10.4 (aka Tiger). Would it be hard to port the code so it works with that SDK?
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Parent - - By Mortimer [de] Date 2011-07-21 21:52
There may be some parts that require 10.6+, like the fullscreen code that allows tabbing out and leaving the display resolution intact.
http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/GraphicsImaging/Conceptual/OpenGL-MacProgGuide/opengl_fullscreen/opengl_cgl.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40001987-CH210-SW6
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Parent - - By PeterW [gb] Date 2011-07-21 22:49
Well, can we really assume everybody has 10.6? I feel we should at least support 10.5.
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Parent - By Heyub [us] Date 2011-07-22 03:42
I think 10.5. should be supported since it is common to find games that support 10.5.,  although it is becoming less common.  Just an opinion.
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Parent - - By Mortimer [de] Date 2011-07-22 06:42
Hmm, let me install 10.4 and check things. On that occasion, I might also make it compile for PowerPC/Rosetta or something.
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Parent - - By PeterW [gb] Date 2011-07-22 10:07
That would be great. Note though that we have so far not attempted to port Clonk to another architecture, especially not one with different byte ordering. You might have to write significant amounts of coversion code wherever binary formats are involved. The stuff StdCompiler touches should be easy enough (just code it into StdCompilerBinRead/Write), but then there's at least C4Group. And Debugrecs.
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Parent - By Mortimer [de] Date 2011-07-22 11:25 Edited 2011-07-22 18:04
Hooray. But maybe.. not worth it since noone uses PowerPC Macs anymore :.D ? Or would that also be useful for future ARM/whatever ports?
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Parent - - By Mortimer [de] Date 2011-07-22 18:07 Edited 2011-07-22 18:13
Ugh, hard to gather all the required prerequisites under Tiger. Even the most recent version of Mercurial supporting Tiger is only 1.2.
Gna, Macports also has no Tiger installer anymore :c

---

Good that I also have a Leopard disk lying around.
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Parent - - By Newton [de] Date 2011-07-22 18:39
An innocent question: Don't the Mac OSX users update to each the newest version? Where is the difficulty to just assume that all OSX users have updated to 10.6?
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Parent - - By Mortimer [de] Date 2011-07-22 19:20 Edited 2011-07-22 19:25
Yeah well, I'd also be in favour of just assuming that :D

And of course -- since Lion was released two days ago, everyone is now on 10.7 and gets all her software from the Mac Appstore only *cough*
OpenClonk - only 2.99$
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Parent - - By Newton [de] Date 2011-07-23 11:15
I wonder - is Wesnoth on that store? If this appstore is something like launchpad/ubuntu package manager (or how it is called now) perhaps OC should be on there as well - if this is how Mac users install programs.
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Parent - By PeterW [gb] Date 2011-07-23 11:44
"Did you mean webnote"? And I have never used the AppStore so far.
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Parent - - By Mortimer [de] Date 2011-07-23 20:09
There are some 'indie' games like Braid and Trine. Braid is 3.99€ currently.
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Parent - - By PeterW [gb] Date 2011-07-23 22:25
Well, the question is obviously whether they'd accept games that they can't ask a profit cut from?
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Parent - - By Mortimer [de] Date 2011-07-23 23:14
Arghs, just to make that clear, I was never actually arguing for putting OpenClonk into the Appstore :D

"And of course -- since Lion was released two days ago, everyone is now on 10.7 and gets all her software from the Mac Appstore only *cough*
OpenClonk - only 2.99$" -- that was meant tongue-in-cheekly.
So.. good night!
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Parent - - By PeterW [gb] Date 2011-07-24 10:41
Well, I thought it would be a good idea to spell out a reason why it probably wouldn't work :)
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Parent - By Mortimer [de] Date 2011-07-24 11:34
I dimly remember some discussion in the regular Clonk Forum about that and how Steam would be a much better candidate :)
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Parent - - By Zapper [de] Date 2011-07-22 19:32
Did you already upgrade to Firefox5? :)
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Parent - By Newton [de] Date 2011-07-23 12:08
Yes
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Parent - - By Günther [de] Date 2011-07-22 23:45
Macosx updates cost money, so there's at least some delay.

But http://stats.wikimedia.org/wikimedia/squids/SquidReportOperatingSystems.htm says that there's fewer Macosx 10.4 users than Linux users, so there's no hypocrisy in not supporting them ;-)
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Parent - - By PeterW [gb] Date 2011-07-23 01:13
Well, my MBP came with Leopard (only updated recently), and with Heyub we have at least one here that has even older hardware. I really think we should at least support Leopard, otherwise we potentially lose all Macs that are older than two years.

And then there's the problem that the IMCROSS scripts are made for 10.4, so support for 10.5 means I actually have to dive into the specifics of how the cross-compiling works :(
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Parent - - By Günther [de] Date 2011-07-23 16:06

> so support for 10.5 means I actually have to dive into the specifics of how the cross-compiling works :(


Simply replacing header files and libraries with newer versions isn't enough? I wouldn't have guessed that building for macs involved that much magic.
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Parent - By PeterW [gb] Date 2011-07-23 17:32
The versions are hardcoded into the script, I think. No idea how much magic is involved, but now I actually have to find out :(
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Parent - - By Ringwaul [ca] Date 2011-07-24 19:39
"Macosx updates cost money,"

ō_ō

I thought that was a joke when I heard that previously.
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Parent - - By timi [de] Date 2011-07-25 10:31
Major updates only, obviously. With ~2 year gaps.
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Parent - By Ringwaul [ca] Date 2011-07-25 19:37
Ah, I thought it was meant like, each patch is $5.99 or something...
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Parent - - By PeterW [gb] Date 2011-07-25 11:47
I heard Windows updates cost money, too. Why so surprised? ;)
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Parent - - By Caesar [de] Date 2011-07-25 19:57
Except they weren't real updates till Vis->7.
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Parent - By Ringwaul [ca] Date 2011-07-25 19:59
I agree with that statement.
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