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Up Topic General / General / Lava and oil
- - Date 2011-10-12 21:03
Parent - - By Newton [de] Date 2011-10-11 18:54
We could use lava as fuel. Oil is so boring...
Parent - - By PeterW [gb] Date 2011-10-11 19:04
You continue to puzzle me with that sentiment.
Parent - - By Caesar [de] Date 2011-10-11 19:41
Getting oil into a barrel: Jump into the oil. You won't even be slippery if you get out.
Getting lava into a barrel: ???
Parent - - By PeterW [gb] Date 2011-10-11 19:50
Well, once we have a pump there's no difference anymore. And compare that with the "just collect it" of coal.

I mean, harvesting lava could be nice (make it burn through barrels in 10 seconds!) - but that doesn't make oil boring o_O
Parent - By Caesar [de] Date 2011-10-11 20:36
I don't really agree, but I like oil. I just tried to say that lava plays a league above oil. And, transporting larger oil reservoirs is easier compared to coal.
Parent - - By Ringwaul [ca] Date 2011-10-11 19:11
I don't like oil either. It's just a liquid form of coal (except you use a barrel instead of a shovel to harvest it).
Parent - - By PeterW [gb] Date 2011-10-11 19:19 Edited 2011-10-11 19:21
Last time I checked coal couldn't burn. And the shovel wasn't used up in mining coal. You also couldn't pump coal. Oil is single-handedly the most interesting resource we have. What the hell are you two talking about? o_O
Parent - By Caesar [de] Date 2011-10-11 20:39

>Last time I checked coal couldn't burn.

That would be an interesting change, no?
Parent - By Ringwaul [ca] Date 2011-10-11 20:44 Edited 2011-10-11 21:13
I'm with Caesar: if coal can't be lit on fire, it should.

Edit: It can (the object, anyways)
Parent - - By AlteredARMOR [ua] Date 2011-10-11 20:34
C'mon people. OIl was always one of the most interesting resources (I even remember my own excitement from building versatile pumping systems in CR). Throwing it away will do us no good since (as we already see from the thread) oil is liked by lots of former CR players.

Substitution for lava will:
- destroy realism;
- break the common sense;
- diminish diversity;
- will make your wipf cry...

Anyway, let's not make haste. We can think about lots of situations in which oil will be much more than a "liquid form of coal" (0_o).
Parent - - By Clonkonaut [ie] Date 2011-10-11 21:56

> destroy realism

I am pro oil but just a quick note: extreme liability to realism is no valid argument. Take Minecraft as an example where lava is used for smelting / burning. No one ever complains about this being unrealistic because it is after all a non realistic game.
Parent - - By AlteredARMOR [ua] Date 2011-10-12 07:45
Though it tends to heavily rely on real world physics.
For example, you do not use dirt to construct weapons, do not make your building out of pure water and definitely have no fish flying in the skies... (applies both to OC and MC)

Most players feel themselves comfortable with things they happen to know from real like. If one sees the oil he does not have to think very hard for its possible applications. Take, on the contrary, some magic "firestone" object. Newbie player will definitely have to read some instructions before he can effictively use it.

Well, it may be just my own sensation, but realism is not the feature OC should easily get rid of (at least untill it requires large development effort).
Parent - - By Ringwaul [ca] Date 2011-10-12 17:05 Edited 2011-10-12 17:07
I think your "common sense" argument was reasonable, but you're confusing it with your realism argument.

Common sense tells us that a "builder tool" in King Arthur's Gold is used for chopping wood, building castles, and mining rock. But in OpenClonk, it is nonsensical to mine with a clearly defined construction hammer or chop a tree down with a pickaxe. Common sense also could tell us lava could be used for it's "geothermal energy" or some rubbish explanation. As long as the player can make this connection it's fine; whether or not it's realistic is irrelevant.

Common sense = Airship flies around
Realism = Airship must have hydrogren/helium to construct
Anti-common sense = Build a mining-hut to fly to sky-islands
Anti-realism = Airship balloon is far too small to even lift off, but it fits better for clonk landscapes, so :P
Parent - By AlteredARMOR [ua] Date 2011-10-12 20:19
No objections here.
As a native English speaker you surely know what you are talking about... :-) (thanks for clarification)
Anyway, I think my point is pretty understandable nevertheless.

> I think your "common sense" argument was reasonable,

And I though the most reasonable was my "wipf" argument...

Parent - - By Clonkonaut [ie] Date 2011-10-11 20:31 Edited 2011-10-11 20:41
I'm with Peter here. Just because oil and coal are both used as fuel doesn't make oil boring. The way of acquiring oil is different and more costly/complicated. It is easier after you've set up proper infrastructure.

I don't see why we should take away the possibility of including oil in your scenario. If oil is boring because it appears together with coal in a scenario then it's just a bad scenario.

There is by the way no reason why lava shouldn't be fuel just because we have oil.
Parent - - By ST-DDT [de] Date 2011-10-11 23:46
i think the object/structure/author should becide whether it uses oil or lava.

Using lava as a powersource for a fridge (cold storage) won't make sense.

and yes you can cool down air with the help of fuel.
(Compressing and decompressing)

by the way i finished the code see first post.
Parent - Date 2011-10-12 12:31
Parent - By PeterW [gb] Date 2011-10-12 17:51
To maybe make this more constructive, here's my take on the whole situation:

* Oil is interesting: I think the main problem with it was that it was kind of "auto-pilot to riches" in CR - its gain-to-effort ratio was way too high in relation to, say, gold[1]. So we should think about how to make pumping and barrels more interesting. Making pumps stop once barrels are full might actually have been a misstep? Plus do we really want to use oil for power supply? Maybe we should push it more into the direction of alchemy...

* Lava is interesting, too. But we shouldn't just blindly put it in the place that oil occupied before. I mean, it might actually be a regenerating resource on some maps, that's a fundamental difference. Also note that it is destructive with water. If the player manages to build both a lava as well as a water reserve, we could give powerful rewards. Like giving truly massive amounts of energy?

[1] Strawmans are rude. But come on, give me something to work with here :/
Up Topic General / General / Lava and oil

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