![[ca]](/mwf/flags/ca.png "Canada")
I've made a library that changes the way the clonk carries large objects (barrels, powder kegs, and boompacks).Note: The 'Crate' object I've made is also included in this zip. It was designed for scenario goals (ie: deliver the gold bars/bread etc). It is a carry-heavy object that also functions as an object container.
The clonk must now activate the object in the landscape to pick it up (there is also an animation for this). The clonk can only carry one 'carry-heavy' object at a time, as it is supposed to be always carried in his arms (locked in the first slot) and impossible to put into the backpack.
I put this into the scenario & object development forum because it's up to debate whether this system is wanted or not.
By the way, I couldn't figure out how to make TortoiseHG export single revisions as bundles. So it's the raw files; overwrite where it asks to do so.
Download Here:
![[ie]](/mwf/flags/ie.png "Ireland")
I really suck at mercurial. Maybe this .hg includes everything but the filesize of 1,78 MB makes me suspicious.
Attachment: CarryHeavy.hg (1829k)
![[de]](/mwf/flags/de.png "Germany")
Looks pretty cool. It's a bit weird though that you can still use your second inventory slot. I think it would make more sense to block both slots, so carrying a heavy object has a real impact on gameplay.
Seems logical. I'll change that in the script and upload a new version.Edit: Ran into a problem. To keep the second slot empty, I would need a helper object to fill that slot. Unfortunately, the clonk could throw that object away. Simply teleporting it back isn't a solution because the throw animation will still be played. :/
Why don't you leave the slots as they are but only block them from being used? The "carry heavy object" would then be displayed similarly to objects you can grab in "action bar" to the right - and also work similarly: While you carry a heavy object, you can't use your normal inventory, just like you pick it up from the landscape, you can drop it back with [space], not throw it at all (too big) and you can use both ControlUse and ControlUseAlt on that item. (Zapper's magic staff would be a heavy item then ;-) )
>(Zapper's magic staff would be a heavy item then ;-) )
But, but, but my magic staff is a lot lighter than a sword!
Hmm, interesting thought. I guess the reason why I made the clonk actually contain the object was because it was designed for objects such as the barrel and powder-keg; instead of allowing the clonk to carry an extra item, carrying a heavy-object would require the clonk to have 2 empty slots. This way, a clonk is in a 'weaker' state, creating tactical opportunities for the players.
How is it artificial that your carrying power is limited?In fact, being able to carry exactly one heavy object in addition to the maximum amount of regular objects you can carry sounds weird to me.
No its artificial to block collecting such an object only because not both of your hands are free. The players will most likely wonder why they can't collect that object even though they press [space] all the time and think this is a bug. That they have to throw away objects just to pick up this one.Do you have to throw away stuff to shove around a catapult? Neither.
>No its artificial to block collecting such an object only because not both of your hands are free. The players will most likely wonder why they can't collect that object even though they press [space] all the time and think this is a bug.
The carry-heavy library automatically empties whatever is in the hands into the rucksack, if possible. If it can't, it will tell the player "Hands are full; no room in backpack!"
>Do you have to throw away stuff to shove around a catapult? Neither.
I agree with you here. But I think it's important to note that heavy-objects are contained in the clonk, and clonks are (generally) contained inside vehicles.
>"Hands are full; no room in backpack!"
Yeah, thats what I meant with artificial limitations.
> But I think it's important to note that heavy-objects are contained in the clonk, and clonks are (generally) contained inside vehicles.
What does the technical implementation have to do with that? I'd say it shouldnt be contained in the clonk then.
In any case, you can't argue to have this limitation in because of balancing because the heavyness of an object is absolutely independent of the might of an object (balancing wise). None of the items you mentioned that should be heavy are somewhere near powerful. (BTW I also don't think that items should be balanced this way (heavy or not heavy)).
I can't see any big advantage of the system, so at least it shouldn't cripple the gameplay by adding artificial limitations. I see it more like adding an in-between-state between items and vehicles (because pushing around vehicles is so annoying in Clonk). That's why I still like my example with the vehicle: you don't have to put your stuff away just to grab a lorry neither.
P.S: Some input/idea - make all resources heavy objects. So the clonk can carry lots of tools and stuff, but has to carry each piece of rock, ore, coal etc. one for one (make them bigger then of course).
>None of the items you mentioned that should be heavy are somewhere near powerful.
Well, the powder-keg/boompack could be fairly dangerous with relevance to using it as a siege weapon. ;) Also, a clonk carrying around 5-7 barrels could empty out a small lake simply by diving into it. The reason I didn't add the dynamite box was because I perceived it as a tool that gave no immediate benefit by being able to carrying more than one (if you fuse more than one, you'll just blow out more resources in one go. Collecting them would be no faster).
>In any case, you can't argue to have this limitation in because of balancing because the heavyness of an object is absolutely independent of the might of an object (balancing wise).
The "heavy-object" is just a title, it doesn't hold any real relevance to the object (ie: my unused crate object; it uses the carry-heavy system so you cannot multiply your inventory space by 4x by carrying 7). The same goes for the boompack and powder-keg; they can make sufficiently sized explosions, and allowing a clonk to carry around 7 would seem highly unbalanced. The barrels as I stated was to stop clonks from being able to move massive amounts of water by hand (that should be the pump's job).
>I see it more like adding an in-between-state between items and vehicles (because pushing around vehicles is so annoying in Clonk).
That seems a fair description
>P.S: Some input/idea - make all resources heavy objects. So the clonk can carry lots of tools and stuff, but has to carry each piece of rock, ore, coal etc. one for one (make them bigger then of course).
Interesting thought; we'd need 3D versions of the resources, though.
BTW, if you don't change your mind about the technical implementation as items, at least avoid the message "cant do that". If there is no inventory space left in the backpack, just drop the 1-2 items currently in the hand then on picking up the heavy object.> Interesting thought; we'd need 3D versions of the resources, though.
Which wouldn't be a problem - we have the models, right?
>at least avoid the message "cant do that". If there is no inventory space left in the backpack, just drop the 1-2 items currently in the hand then on picking up the heavy object.
That seems fair. Currently my position as them being 'items' is for the same reason Sven2 stated. Though if the only difference between the two is making the clonk drop the items in his hands, I can understand your position clearly (Player: "FFFUU- I dropped my sword again because I forgot to switch it into the backpack and didn't realize my rucksack was full before grabbing a powder keg, so now I can't light it at the enemy base!").
>Which wouldn't be a problem - we have the models, right?
Eh... they're quite hi-poly. (ie: 1000~ faces per rock).
![[ua]](/mwf/flags/ua.png "Ukraine")
> they're quite hi-poly
These models were never meant to be anything else than mere sprites.
It was a long time ago but we actualy started with models for resources (there was rock, I remember ~ 30 polies or such) but they turned out to look not too realistic. It was the main reason why sprites were created...
> "FFFUU- I dropped my sword again because I forgot to switch it into the backpack and didn't realize my rucksack was full before grabbing a powder keg, so now I can't light it at the enemy base!"
Even more annoying: "FFFUU - I dropped my flints - BOOM"
> just drop the 1-2 items currently in the hand
Not sure if dropping the items is a good idea, see Clonkonaut's remark about dropped explosives. Wouldn't just greying them out (or mark them as "currently not usable" in any other way) work as well?
> If it can't, it will tell the player "Hands are full; no room in backpack!"
I agree with Newton that "can't do this" messages aren't good design. In many cases it's preferable to show the player what he's trying to do doesn't work (via some in-game event/animation/etc). Still, I want to remark that this message is especially bad: It seemingly says "your hands are full because your backpack is", so the player is left wondering "What the hell do my hands have to do with my backpack?". In the message, the info that an attempt was made to put the items from your hands into backpack is missing entirely, which might lead to player confusion.
>In the message, the info that an attempt was made to put the items from your hands into backpack is missing entirely, which might lead to player confusion.
You want a message like:
1)Cannot put items from hands to backpack.
-Backpack is full
2)Cannot carry heavy item X
3)Cannot be happy
4)Cannot do Y
Like in the old production chain?
Where the whole production chain is listed because one item is missing?
No sulphur->No flint->no SuperFlint->No Teraflint=
sulphur not availiable, cannot produce flint, flint not availiable, cannot produce superflint, super flint not availiable, cannot produce Teraflint.
The first time i saw this meesages i thougt the game has crushed because they filled up the entire screen
and what about production lines with heavy objects.
in Cr you automatically fill up your inventory (especially when walking next to wompfbeerybushs), so the production fails because your hands are filled up with unnessesary items?
in cr there was a function GetObject2Drop and noone complained about it.
> You want a message like: ... Like in the old production chain?
Well... no. No idea what makes you think that.
Okay, the only thing left to implement is a graphic on the right-hand slot to show that the clonk can not collect any items while carrying heavy objects. (What also would be nice: making the clonk set down objects instead of throwing them. This can be added after, though)If I make the graphic for that and push the files to the repos, can someone implement displaying this graphic in the hand slot? I tried doing this myself, but I am not familiar working with the HUD at all, and couldn't get it to work.
Hey Ringwaul. We have been testing the carry heavy system at the CM in Hamburg and it doesn't work that well I think. Can you explain how you intended it to work (technically, gameplay-wise)?
Technically, I can see the current implementation is not the best one. I believe the suggestion to allow a clonk to operate it like he is holding a vehicle (have full inventory, no "hands are full", etc.) is a better idea.Gameplay-wise, it is supposed to be an item which has the handling properties of a vehicle so as to balance various items (so a clonk can't carry 7 powder kegs and destroy half of the map in one run, for example) with the added bonus of these massive objects not disappearing into the nether when the clonk switches what hand he carries them in (considering in the animation, they are carried with both hands, it makes sense that it should work this way with the controls as well).
Having played a bit, I also think using vehicle controls is the best solution.Also: http://bugs.openclonk.org/view.php?id=691
For the powder keg vs Cannon, the keg should probably enter the cannon automatically when you drop it in front.
>For the powder keg vs Cannon, the keg should probably enter the cannon automatically when you drop it in front.
I don't think I like that. What about making the powder keg something like a pseudo-inventory when grabbing a cannon and having it lie in front? Or vice versa?
Or make the keg only enter the cannon when grabbing it?
Powered by mwForum 2.29.7 © 1999-2015 Markus Wichitill
