![[de]](/mwf/flags/de.png "Germany")
Mhm. It did realise Ringwaul never cared for the event of objects getting removed from the clonk's inventory.
I wouldn't do any major refactoring of the (bulky) Clonk control code btw. That has already been done in the Controls branch
Yeah, well, that's more doing stuff in the carry heavy lib and not fiddling with control.
![[th]](/mwf/flags/th.png "Thailand")
Is there a chance to see progress on it soon?
Could you maybe summarize the current status in a different thread? At least I would like to do some work into this direction, but have no idea where to start.
Edit: and maybe you could push whatever stuff is semi finished and still only locally on your pc and merge master into controls?
Edit: and maybe you could push whatever stuff is semi finished and still only locally on your pc and merge master into controls?
Mh. I think the scripting part is currently about finishing the new interaction menu (inventory + buying + selling + production) that we layed out at the last CM (there are some sketches of Matthi).The status is that the framework (big menu, showing smaller menu-parts with callbacks) and the inventory menu work. So building should be able to insert their menus into that main menu via callbacks. An unsolved issue is how to refresh those open menus - not so much the "how" but more the "when": how are changes detected with the least work for the producer (aka "with the easiest interface").
This, of course, is a major GUI scripting part *). If someone wanted to get used to the GUI things as the first step, one possibility would be to change the gold display in the top-right corner to use the new menu interface, or add a HP bar on the left, or change the crew selection buttons to use the new menus. All this stuff is obviously low priority because things also work without it. But it might be a good start to get used to the menu interface.
*) It at least requires understanding of the GUI stuff, even if most of the tricky script work is already done (aka, "how do I maintain a framework-menu with sub-entries").PS: the next engine stuff I have to do is probably adjusting the menu stuff to use the old C4GUI. For the greater good in the long run™.
PPS: but I will at least be semi-busy with my bachelor's thesis in the next two months. That's why I said I probably won't do anything of the bigger (engine-work) stuff in the next time.
Okay, good luck with your thesis then!
I will have a look at some point, is it safe to merge master into controls?
I will have a look at some point, is it safe to merge master into controls?
>I will have a look at some point, is it safe to merge master into controls?
Hopefully. That's something that I should find time to do, though :)
Then I can check whether I have unpushed stuff lying around (I think I have a commit that ends with
"[TO AMMEND]") and at least one branch branching off controls :D
Date 2014-02-10 18:40
We had lots of menu-related script errors in the round we played. Unfortunately, I forgot to save and overwrote the log in a later round.
What's the plan on the normal resources? I noticed one big ore chunk gets split into 4 (or so) normal ore chunks when you put it in the foundry.
That will be changed as soon as I finish the carrz heavy metal bar. The small resources will be gone then.
Ah, completely? So no more in earth objects? Also I'd still suggest to make Firestone yield chunks, too, for consistency.
And how would that work? You throw a big chunk and blow up the whole map?
I think we wanted small explosives available with the shovel to incentivize using explosives to mine instead of the pickaxe.
I think we wanted small explosives available with the shovel to incentivize using explosives to mine instead of the pickaxe.
No, but look for a good spot to carefully throw the thing in order to not blow yourself up with the big explosion radius while mining.And manufacture it into dynamite/split into handsized firestones in the chemlab.
Maybe it's way too easy to mine with the ludicrous amount of small firestones you get atm? There should be a bit more to explosives than just "dig out and you are done". Having fewer, but bigger explosives add the challange to handle it safely when mining to avoid loss of fingers, limbs and life.
And you'd still use dangerous explosions if you have them right on your hands instead of going through all the trouble to make a pickaxe right at the beginning.
Also a nice "big bomb" for melees with catapults.
Making the firestone objects carry-heavy would imo go pretty directly against the whole idea of introducing a firestone material to make stuff easier in the beginning.
> introducing a firestone material to make stuff easier in the beginning.
Not easier. Less boring. So you don't have to build a chemlab and windmill first before mining, if you don't want to. And having a big explosive chunk does in no way go against the players ability to start mining right at the beginning. They just have to be a bit more thoughtful how to use them, until they decide it's time to have a chemlab to make safer explosives.
> So no more in earth objects?
You can spawn the chunks in earth! Also, we can think of other stuff to fill up the earth with.
Maybe it'd be cool to be able to pick up items while running. So you don't have to even stop to pick stuff up?
Summing discussion up a little bit:Next approach will then be to have all materials carry heavy. Which according to a quick scan through Objects.ocd would apply to the following objects:
Amethyst*, Cloth, Cotton, Earth**, Metal, Moss, Ruby*
---
*: I think that Maikel did these when making all those settlement scenarios about ruby hunting and stuff. So, I'd like your opinion on this. It would break the theme to have material not drop chunks, on the other hand you wouldn't sell a big chunk of gemstone or would you? I don't know. We could however have the windmill split the chunk into little gems (which wouldn't eradicate the little objects at all!). Also, this might break your intended way of mining in the sky island scenarios. I would leave the whole matter up to you.
**: I think the earth object isn't used at all anymore. We might consider to delete it without compensation.
---
Also, there are some cornercases here which I can't decide on:
Loam:
I want to leave this a 'small' object for practical reasons. But I can picture it as a chunk, too. Opinions?
Seeds:
I see no need here and it's the same case as loam: You can use these for stuff (planting).
Flour:
Useless stuff but if seeds are small, flour should so, too. But when changing seeds, this can also change!
I agree with **
Regarding *:
Sven originally made this, and also most scenarios, I made the GemGrabbers scenario and there I could rework the scenario in principle to adapt to carry heavy rubies. However I don't like the grinding idea in the windmill, it sounds quite ridiculous in my opinion. I would then just make them carry heavy, a bit bigger, but not as big as the other carry heavy resources and keep them as directly sell able at the flag.
Then there is the issue with the teleglove method for mining ruby stalactites, which was the coolest where you would hang from a grappling bow, plant a dynamite and catch the ruby with your teleglove... How do telegloves work on carryheavy? In another ruby scenario by Sven you could fetch the rubies from a lava lake with the teleglove. These present some redesign issues at least, but one could work around them. I wouldn't see the current scenarios as static entities, they should evolve and be improved as the game improves.
What do we do about the normal sized rocks? Only the hammer needs them as a construction material, so if we replace that with metal we could get rid off the normal size rocks as well.
Regarding *:
Sven originally made this, and also most scenarios, I made the GemGrabbers scenario and there I could rework the scenario in principle to adapt to carry heavy rubies. However I don't like the grinding idea in the windmill, it sounds quite ridiculous in my opinion. I would then just make them carry heavy, a bit bigger, but not as big as the other carry heavy resources and keep them as directly sell able at the flag.
Then there is the issue with the teleglove method for mining ruby stalactites, which was the coolest where you would hang from a grappling bow, plant a dynamite and catch the ruby with your teleglove... How do telegloves work on carryheavy? In another ruby scenario by Sven you could fetch the rubies from a lava lake with the teleglove. These present some redesign issues at least, but one could work around them. I wouldn't see the current scenarios as static entities, they should evolve and be improved as the game improves.
What do we do about the normal sized rocks? Only the hammer needs them as a construction material, so if we replace that with metal we could get rid off the normal size rocks as well.
>we could get rid off the normal size rocks as well.
Ack. The hammer can easily take one big chunk imo. It's not about realism but about playability :)
>which was the coolest where you would hang from a grappling bow, plant a dynamite and catch the ruby with your teleglove
What about shooting a carry-heavy thing with the grappling bow and attaching your rope to it? :D
Okay, I'll see if I get this stuff done by today. If not, hopefully tomorrow!> How do telegloves work on carryheavy?
Good question, I have no idea.
> Only the hammer needs them as a construction material
Ah, didn't know that. I'd replace it with a rock chunk then (I think this was a balancing decision?).
I'd say the tele glove should just also work on carry heavy items. Otherwise, the only thing you could do with it is recover tools of dead Clonks from lava lakes, which is a bit of a niche application.Also, it's a pretty advanced item only available in few scenarios, so it is supposed to be strong.
Plus you can still only transport one chunk with it, so I don't think it would be incredibly strong anyway.
It would be pretty strong, because it would eliminate the need to make all passages walkable. However, that's fine for me because it's an advanced tool that offers the scenario designer to build maps that don't have this requirement.
Well, another "magic thing" that would eliminate the need of the passages to be walkable would be an elevator with a lorry.. and I think an elevator+lorry is still a lot more comfortable than a tele glove - just because you can transport more than one thing at a time.
>advanced tool
The thing needs only 2 metal? Does it count as advanced, only because it's produced in the research lab, wich also is just built like any other structure?
btw, when I play a map it always drives me crazy when the scenario designer decided that that some few items in particular aren't producable, because you don't have knowledge.
When you have made the scenario, it is ok for you, because you know what you can do and what not, but imagine playing the scen for the first time: You could build a research lab only to notice that you can't produce the item you wanted to, so you build the lab for nothing.
From a players view, I generally hate it when sometimes (advanced) stuff is producable, and sometimes not.
Well the teleglove could take a gem as material as well to make it hard to produce!
> The thing needs only 2 metal?
Bleh. Wasn't never ironed out but it's intended to be advanced. Soon, you'll need planks to construct an inventor's lab!
> From a players view, I generally hate it when sometimes (advanced) stuff is producable, and sometimes not.
But that's pretty standard and a useful tool for making scenarios more different. I like those advanced settlement missions where you have to fulfill tasks to obtain construction plans.
If this is not transparent to the player, then maybe there should be an easy-to-access tech-tree to see what can be produced and what is not obtainable. Like e.g. this. Or maybe even add the stuff that can be produced to the preview you get when mouse-hovering the structure in the construction menu.
Feel free to add a tech-view of all construction plans with the new fancy full screen menus in the controls branch :3
![[ro]](/mwf/flags/ro.png "Romania")
The teleglove could be in the need for energy (from windmills or energy field) for carrying heavy objects,so players would need to create some infastructure to use the teleglove for moving heavey objects, and could handle those objects more easy while in base, in cost for energy.
Just to keep you all posted on this; I did not stop working. I'm in the process of creating more and more bigger objects for every resource. Also, Matthi should be working on models for chunks and/or logs, metal bars or so. I've got no status on that though, maybe he can say something.I'd say that I'm halfway done. But since there's an oral exam coming up for me on 4th March, I won't get anything done until then. Luckily, afterwards I will have finished my first Staatsexamen and start applying for jobs. Lots of free time then!!1
I pushed some more chunks two days ago. All of the natural resources* should be accounted for now. This push will probably break the gem collection scenarios for now. I haven't done anything with the teleglove, not even tested if it can lift carry heavy (afaik Maikel did?).---
*: Every material in the earth, not wood!
---
Next step would be to replace other resources which are special or refined. Namely metal and wood and all of the things I can't remember right now. I haven't got any models from Matthi :( So all I can do is to give these objects the same chunk model. Testing will be horrible!
Yes I think the teleglove still works on them, this items needs to be rebalanced later anyways, so don't worry too much about that.
Maybe you can give some of the chunks stripes to distinguish them.
Maybe you can give some of the chunks stripes to distinguish them.
The model has no texture; all I can do (at least to my knowledge) is to give it a solid color.
I need rocks. And logs. :S There even is a nice model for the chunks, there's just a hole in it and no texture!But okay, I'll sketch something.
Yeah, but what kind of rock? what color are they? what structure does a chunk of rock in clonk have? is it smooth, or rather rough? is it composed of layers or maybe yet tinier chunks? what makes it different from iron ore? are ore chunks made solely from the ore, or is there dirt and rocks mixed in? There's a lot to explore when it comes to rocks, and I think if the model is almost as big as a clonk, we should spend some time to think of some nice visual key features for each ressource, instead of going with the "well, sort of round"-approach. ;)
Uh. Okay. Yeah, that involves much more thinking than I'd planned! I just wanted the same smooth model and then use the small objects' graphics for texturing. ;)Needs more sketching then.
Well, it doesn't HAVE to be well thought out, if it's too much trouble, I certainly won't force you ;) But keep in mind that we are talking about the fundamental resources here, they are easily the most common objects in every kind of scenario. Especially since the current graphics style can be somewhat confusing (try discerning a lump of coal from a coal vein!), we should at least consider making these objects really nice to look at.
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