As pointed out by Mimmo_O and me, we could introduce a new concept: Vehicles, structures, and maybe more objects, could be made up from individual parts.
These parts can be constructed separately, and there are several classes of parts that can go together. Examples for such classes would be: Motors, movement, conversion and production. Now, instead of just building the "full thing", you would have to construct the final product in several steps, combining parts as you need.
Additionally, the parts could belong to different tech levels. E.g., steam engines surely are more advanced than hand-operated cranks.
I'll give you some examples for illustration:
Example 1: A sailboat. It consists of a boat hull (which would belong to the movement category) and sails (motors category). The sails are, well, "motors" dependant on wind.
Example 2: A steam train consists of wheels (movement) and a steam engine (motor), and perhaps more parts, like a coupling for wagons. This kind of motor depends on coal and maybe water.
Example 3: As the scenario dictates, steam engines may not be available. Perhaps due to tech level restrictions, or because no coal exists on the map. You could still get some kind of train: Combine wheels and sails and get a wind-propelled "wind wagon".
Example 4: We'll take some buildings from Clonk Rage and "re-invent" them as combined buildings. Take the usually hand-operated dynamo. What do you get when combining it with sails? What do you get when combining it with a steam engine?
Combinable parts could be achieved in two ways. There could be pre-defined combined objects, like the statue in the mission "Up High". This, however, would limit the possibilities severely. Another approach is defining "interfaces" for the part classes. E.g., Motors would generate a "force" which would be transformed into motion by the movement parts. (Uh, it's getting kind of OOP here). This implementation would allow for combos not foreseen.
Having such a system could play nicely with the "Emphasize production lines" principle formulated by Newton. Furthermore, it could be a lot of fun to "try out stuff".
Now that being said, I can understand that having to build everything from parts gets annoying over time. "Automation is king"! I think we would need the ability to define "build macros" that, once the desired combination is defined, let a clonk automatically obtain all parts and put them together. That's not the scope of this posting, though. ;)
These parts can be constructed separately, and there are several classes of parts that can go together. Examples for such classes would be: Motors, movement, conversion and production. Now, instead of just building the "full thing", you would have to construct the final product in several steps, combining parts as you need.
Additionally, the parts could belong to different tech levels. E.g., steam engines surely are more advanced than hand-operated cranks.
I'll give you some examples for illustration:
Example 1: A sailboat. It consists of a boat hull (which would belong to the movement category) and sails (motors category). The sails are, well, "motors" dependant on wind.
Example 2: A steam train consists of wheels (movement) and a steam engine (motor), and perhaps more parts, like a coupling for wagons. This kind of motor depends on coal and maybe water.
Example 3: As the scenario dictates, steam engines may not be available. Perhaps due to tech level restrictions, or because no coal exists on the map. You could still get some kind of train: Combine wheels and sails and get a wind-propelled "wind wagon".
Example 4: We'll take some buildings from Clonk Rage and "re-invent" them as combined buildings. Take the usually hand-operated dynamo. What do you get when combining it with sails? What do you get when combining it with a steam engine?
Combinable parts could be achieved in two ways. There could be pre-defined combined objects, like the statue in the mission "Up High". This, however, would limit the possibilities severely. Another approach is defining "interfaces" for the part classes. E.g., Motors would generate a "force" which would be transformed into motion by the movement parts. (Uh, it's getting kind of OOP here). This implementation would allow for combos not foreseen.
Having such a system could play nicely with the "Emphasize production lines" principle formulated by Newton. Furthermore, it could be a lot of fun to "try out stuff".
Now that being said, I can understand that having to build everything from parts gets annoying over time. "Automation is king"! I think we would need the ability to define "build macros" that, once the desired combination is defined, let a clonk automatically obtain all parts and put them together. That's not the scope of this posting, though. ;)
![[de]](/mwf/flags/de.png "Germany")
>you have to create the motor, the exterior part, and then build it together in a workshop, and so on). [...] it would be more diversified, challenging, scenario-specific and funny.
We have to be extremely careful there that we don't just add "fake difficulty" or here better "fake diversity". Its not really a difference if you build three engine parts with two metal each and put them together afterwards or if you just build one complete engine with six metal. Stuff like that would not really make the game "better" or more "fun to play" but would only force the player to do one action three times (creating an engine part). And nobody would really like to to that more than one time (when your engine is destroyed for example. You still have six metal left. But you cannot just build one complete engine but instead you have to build three different parts again just to put them together..)
Agreed. However, the ability to build separate parts would make sense if you could combine them as you wish. Balloon + steam motor = Blimp, or something like that.
very nice idea :p smaller objects useful in many ways if they are combined together with different objects
Catapult + steam motor = Ehr... That idea sounds half good, half unrealistic.
Well the clonk needs to push it so the speed is limited to the pushspeed. Or he "enters" the catapult :D.
That would heavily depend on the model used. In an extremely free one, the player could choose what he wants the motor to be connected to. The wheels, so that it can move without being pushed by a Clonk or pulled by a train. To the "arm", for enhancing the firing range. To the... "entire mechanism", for making the catapult capable of "autofire".
But not when constructing the cannon. You would need wheels and a pipe, basically
And for what else would you need the pipe? For a pump, combined with a steam-engine. (o_O. What if you combine wind-thingy and pump? http://www.insel-usedom-wollin.de/a5/kach05230036.jpg)
completely agree. But as I said different times, I really don't want to make resource collection longer, just more fun. So taking your examples, if should not have 3 engine parts, but instead maybe the wheels, the exterior part, and the engine, every one with completely different production lines and activities to build. I completely agree that you don't have to create fake difficulty. But if you make this system in a smart way, you don't necessarily do it :)
And there should be the possibility of giving clonks the ability to build items in a chain, so you have not to click it new when the item is produced.This problem with producing flints in a chemical factory f. ex.
![[es]](/mwf/flags/es.png "Spain")
> Furthermore, it could be a lot of fun to "try out stuff".
Well, every possible combination of vehicle or generally "stuff" would have to exist as an object, wouldn't it?
i think so. but maybe we could make those combinations dynamic: if you combine wheels and sails, you just use the model of the sails and the model of the wheels.for some combinations (train = wheels + Steamengine + body) there could exist extra-models.
to the script: i am not the proscripter, by why not just attach the sails to the wheels, and combine their scripts? so the sails just do "is there wind?!?" and the wheels just ask the sails "Will you make me move?!?!?!"
maybe this works, i dont know.
dynamic != performance
No. As a counterexample, take Horus' tank. It mainly consists of wheels, the body with its cannon, and an (invisible) entrance. I have a similar, but more sophisticated/general system in mind.
Yay in the Workshop you can create yourn own vehicle.
Adding parts like "Sails" would increase the materialcosts but give the vehicle more abilitys or more "health" untill it burns down.
So i would create me a Sailboot-car-ballon :D
Adding parts like "Sails" would increase the materialcosts but give the vehicle more abilitys or more "health" untill it burns down.
So i would create me a Sailboot-car-ballon :D
For the more-materials-problem we could just increase the number of rocks/ores coming out of an explosion (which hits the material).
Or when you produce the material decrease the materialcosts or increase the number of the outcoming material.
What I want to say is that in my opinion the problem of too high materialcosts isn't that big that it isn't unsolveable.
Or when you produce the material decrease the materialcosts or increase the number of the outcoming material.
What I want to say is that in my opinion the problem of too high materialcosts isn't that big that it isn't unsolveable.
![[pl]](/mwf/flags/pl.png "Poland")
First thing - sorry for replying to post that old.
But lets get to the point. Most of you people are right, that this will make the game too complex, but... not necessarily, I would suggest system like that: Player could construct engines, sails, wheels, etc. and then compose them into a vehicle, and then save it as a preset for fututre re-constructing it, -OR- just choose one of pre-made combinations that are most useful like sailboat, blimp, cannon, etc. and everything would be constructed automatically part-by part from first available materials (from best ones to worst, see my post in New Material thread), and then combined into complete vehicle, so in melees nobody would have to worry about complexity.
But lets get to the point. Most of you people are right, that this will make the game too complex, but... not necessarily, I would suggest system like that: Player could construct engines, sails, wheels, etc. and then compose them into a vehicle, and then save it as a preset for fututre re-constructing it, -OR- just choose one of pre-made combinations that are most useful like sailboat, blimp, cannon, etc. and everything would be constructed automatically part-by part from first available materials (from best ones to worst, see my post in New Material thread), and then combined into complete vehicle, so in melees nobody would have to worry about complexity.
Powered by mwForum 2.29.7 © 1999-2015 Markus Wichitill
