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Up Topic General / General / well would you look at that :)
- - By Pyrit Date 2014-11-21 20:33
Dude with 180k subscribers plays OpenClonk!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdxtZ-Yht-4

Another new video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTKZ47JyIgo
That comment though :D

>It's quite similar to Terraria...but unplayable.

Parent - - By Maikel Date 2014-11-21 20:56
Drunk English people generally suck, which is proven again...

The German video is quite cool, they managed to get 12 people to join Gold Rush, not bad!
Parent - - By Pyrit Date 2014-11-21 21:20
They had a lot of lag and failed to have high res landscape, wich obviously dampens the fun a lot.

I was surprised the german dudes had 12 people ingame and almost no lag! :o
Parent - By Newton [de] Date 2014-11-22 16:02

> I was surprised the german dudes had 12 people ingame and almost no lag! :o


Yeah, that surprised me too. Noone was playing on WIFI???
Parent - - By Newton [de] Date 2014-11-22 16:01
Cool!

@Video: Yeah, the zoomed names really bug me as well. Apparently, this hasn't been fixed yet because the position should be zoomed, but not the text itself. This seems to be a problem and would need a small refactor which noone had the nerves to do yet.
Parent - - By PeterW [de] Date 2014-11-23 12:52 Edited 2014-11-23 12:56
Yeah, I checked - zoom gets applied as literally the last thing in the whole pipeline (using glScale). You'd have to "compensate" for it. Can we please agree that this is terrible design? :(
Parent - - By Zapper [de] Date 2014-11-23 13:18
Wouldn't it be relatively easy to throw out the name rendering where it is now and reintroduce it as another drawing step where zoom is ignored? (similar to how the GUI is also drawn completely independenty from the objects)
Parent - By Pyrit Date 2014-11-23 17:06
Or maybe a helper object that shows a Message()?
Either way it would be really cool if you could also set transperency instead of just on-off.
Parent - By Nachtfalter [cz] Date 2014-11-22 19:46
"It's quite similar to Terraria...but unplayable." - :D
Reply
Parent - - By Sven2 [de] Date 2014-11-23 21:44
The German main caster really seemed to like it, but his co-casters weren't so happy.

I think the problem is that if you start e.g. gold mine without knowing anything, you still can't just play the game out of the box. They just didn't know what to do. The main guy seems to have played something before (maybe the tutorial) and at least had a clue.
Parent - - By Maikel Date 2014-11-24 09:47
Then we need to improve the tutorials (I will only start working on that again when at least the controls or the carry-heavy branch is merged into master) and force people somehow to play them.

Even the raid mission is too hard for people who have not played the tutorials.
Parent - - By Newton [de] Date 2014-11-24 09:50

>and force people somehow to play them.


Or, you could force the people working on controls and carry-heavy to get it done already. *glance*
Parent - By Maikel Date 2014-11-24 10:07
Yes, that always works best :D Maybe the finishing of the lights branch will serve as a motivation!
Parent - By Clonkonaut [de] Date 2014-11-24 13:54
*ducks away before the glance*
Reply
Parent - - By Armin [de] Date 2014-11-24 10:19
It is highly recommended to play all tutorials when playing Clonk for the first time. Don't show this message again. [ ]
Parent - By Maikel Date 2014-11-24 10:49
True, you can add your suggestion here.
Parent - - By Sven2 [de] Date 2014-11-24 11:00

> Even the raid mission is too hard for people who have not played the tutorials.


Yes. The Raid mission is currently a bit frustrating if you get stuck for whatever reason because you have a relatively large landscape and don't know where to go next.

My plan was to put another mission before The Raid, which consists of just traveling to the village with some AI enemies, switches and doors, etc. But without going back and forth too much. So all obstacles are self-contained and small and if you die to an AI, you just respawn at the last flagpole.
Parent - By ala [de] Date 2014-11-24 12:53

>My plan was to put another mission before The Raid, which consists of just traveling to the village with some AI enemies, switches and doors, etc. But without going back and forth too much. So all obstacles are self-contained and small and if you die to an AI, you just respawn at the last flagpole.


Very much like that idea.
Parent - - By Zapper [de] Date 2014-11-24 11:33

>(I will only start working on that again when at least the controls or the carry-heavy branch is merged into master)


For the controls-branch I suggest the following:
Get a bugfix release out asap (if necessary) and then just merge the branches.
I finished the remaining blockers of the controls branch in October before the semester started. The rest is basically scripting work, testing and obviously some fixes and lacking things I didn't think about yet.

However, it might be wise to first let all the motivated people finish the lights branch (or at least get it to a mergable state) to not split the ressources further [as I still won't have much time the next weeks] :)
Parent - - By Newton [de] Date 2014-11-24 19:04

>The rest is basically scripting work


Do you mean designing and creating the actual dialogs and GUI/HUD elements within the new system?
Parent - By Zapper [de] Date 2014-11-24 19:36
Most of that has actually already been finished, too. There are probably still some things missing, but from what I remember most of the work left will be testing and bugfixing and checking how the gameplay feels (and probably some things I forgot now).

I DO have some engine things still open, though. Like a menu option for the size of the ingame menus: it seemed to me that on very huge screens the menus should be a lot smaller and centered.

Also, you still cannot zoom fonts; but I don't think I will implement that
Parent - - By Sven2 Date 2014-11-24 12:54

> when at least the controls or the carry-heavy branch is merged into master


Concerning carry heavy, I don't really like it at the moment. In pretty much every youtube video I saw of beginners playing OpenClonk, the players were already mostly overwhelmed just by digging out materials and constructing a building. If core mechanics of the game become more difficult now, I fear we might lose even more potential players.
Parent - - By Newton [de] Date 2014-11-24 19:12
Hmm, I wouldn't say carry heavy makes it more difficult per se. Sure, what the people did in the first video wouldn't get any better, but this was just total chaos. The key is not to make it less difficult, but more clear what the player has to do. I see the problem rather in the awkward GUI interaction and unclear feedback to the player. There, I see carry heavy on the positive side, because the player has to pick up a rock deliberately and he sees and feels that he is carrying it.
Parent - - By Sven2 [de] Date 2014-11-24 22:20
In carry heavy, you cannot climb while carrying an item, right? That's a huge obstacle and it makes it very easy to dig yourself into a hole where you cannot get any items out. And newbies *always* fail with the digging.

It's true that players will probably understand their folly once they sit in that cave and can't get the chunk of coal up to that foundry. But by then the landscape has been ruined and they'll just quit the game in frustration (not realizing they could easily build a foundry underground...)
Parent - - By ala [de] Date 2014-11-24 22:36
Well can't you just drop the item and climb out? - I think people will manage to dig a proper path to it on second or third try - or go for a different chunk of coal after all.

But you do have a point in stating that transportation has always been an issue, adding elements helping with that matter.
Some possibilities: Balloon attachments to items making them fly up, attachment to ropes and pulling items out of a holes with some rope machine - possibilities like that would be welcome by me, it will also enhance retrieving lost vehicles.
Parent - By Sven2 [de] Date 2014-11-24 22:48
Yeah, encouraging advanced transport like that was the whole reason we started carry heavy. Problem is: You don't even get a settlement going (and won't be able to build advanced things) unless you get that chunk of coal out of the cave.
Parent - By Clonkonaut [de] Date 2014-11-25 11:53
Failure is the first step of doing better!
Reply
Parent - - By Pyrit Date 2014-11-24 20:42
I've seen 2 LPs so far where the players couldn't build structures, because the ground was too uneven. It took them a considerable amount of time to realize you can actually use the shovel to create an even surface to build your stuff.
Kind of funny I guess. Things that are obvious to clonkers are cryptic to players who have probably never tried a game like clonk.
Parent - - By ala [de] Date 2014-11-24 22:04

>I've seen 2 LPs so far where the players couldn't build structures, because the ground was too uneven. It took them a considerable amount of time to realize you can actually use the shovel to create an even surface to build your stuff.
>Kind of funny I guess. Things that are obvious to clonkers are cryptic to players who have probably never tried a game like clonk.


Reminds me of my recommendation to just allow inclined buildings a while back. This 100%-quadratic building in an uneven landscape-type really has always felt unnatural to me.
Parent - By Marky [de] Date 2014-11-24 23:42
And inclined buildings would make it look about 50% more clonky I'd say :D
Parent - By Matthias [de] Date 2014-11-24 22:06

>Kind of funny I guess. Things that are obvious to clonkers are cryptic to players who have probably never tried a game like clonk.


To get exactly this kind of feedback and these kinds of insights early on is one of the core principles of modern software development, by the way :)
Reply
Parent - By B_E Date 2014-11-24 22:19
Nice it's been seen by some Youtubers - unfortunate that it ran so badly with the English guys.
Up Topic General / General / well would you look at that :)

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