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![[se]](/mwf/flags/se.png "Sweden")
But can't you see the evil circle? "it feels weird when you are having a dialogue in english while knowing quite well that the other one speaks your mother tongue as well" Just that MAKES it be only germans there. I have a forum on the internet where like 90% of the users are swedish. We still speak english though. All the time. Why? Simply because we don't want to alienate others and paint us in a corner like #clonkdev for example. And as Maikel have, I have also been idling some in there for a week or so, but no one speaks english. And I don't think that matter either since often people just stumble in and asks a question in german and I am pretty sure they don't look at the userlist to search for foregniers. Simply stating it as a rule to speak english in there in the topic, and have all regulars in there point it out to people who starts speaking other tounges and then answer in english would change it for the good I beleive. It isn't that hard.
![[de]](/mwf/flags/de.png "Germany")
>Just that MAKES it be only germans there.
Do you think there will magically appear some non-Germans when Germans discuss in English?
>I have a forum on the internet where like 90% of the users are swedish.
Didn't you notice that we speak English here in the forum, not German? In a forum, everything can be read weeks or even months after it was written - in IRC only if you were there at the time it was written; so it doesn't make sense to speak English if there's nobody who can't speak German.
>And I don't think that matter either since often people just stumble in and asks a question in german and I am pretty sure they don't look at the userlist to search for foregniers. Simply stating it as a rule to speak english in there in the topic
Such people usually don't read the topic.
>Do you think there will magically appear some non-Germans when Germans discuss in English?
Of course, at least zagabar and Maikel would
>Do you think there will magically appear some non-Germans when Germans discuss in English?
Yup I do. I wouldn't call it magic though.
>Didn't you notice that we speak English here in the forum, not German? In a forum, everything can be read weeks or even months after it was written - in IRC only if you were there at the time it was written; so it doesn't make sense to speak English if there's nobody who can't speak German.
Yeah, I noticed. That is why I am only talking about IRC. The situation is not as you are implying. You state that you speak german when no other are there. I have actually seen you guys speak german, and I cannot speak german. Thus the situation is not as you states. It might feel silly to speak english when there are only germans in there, but then you encourage german and then when english people joins, there is no reason to start speaking english. #clonkdev is a living proof of that right now, whether you want it or not.
>Such people usually don't read the topic.
Thats why moderators, regulars and non germans would remind them that this is an english channel.
I cannot see why people are so extremely against this idea. :S Don't you get that you open up your doors to the whole wide world instead of shutting yourself in inside your small country? Germany is not that big.
>I cannot see why people are so extremely against this idea. :S
As I can see only two were against it, or not? (Kanibal&Luchs)
>I cannot see why people are so extremely against this idea. :S
I am not against it. But I don't see a reason to discuss it all out. I see Clonk-Karls post as an appeal to all the German speakers in the channel to respect the international nature of the project and speak (more) English in the channel. And I acknowledge that. But I don't see it as some kind of order to force everybody to speak English now, "or else".
You have read opinions and reasoned objections as well as approvals of that appeal and everybody will act according to what he thinks is the best.
>Simply stating it as a rule to speak english in there in the topic..
>But can't you see the evil circle?
I can and I agree with you that making english mandatory there would be good. I just tried to explain why others are feeling odd about this.
Okay, sorry. =) I still don't really get it though... Why people want to be so conservatistic about this, that is.
Education can only get you so far. To become fluent and comfortable, you have to actually practice. Are the Netherlands one of those countries where everybody watches Hollywood movies in English? I've heard that makes a noticable difference in the average English skills. In Germany, there are a lot of people who do not read or write any English after they leave school. I don't have any data on how many of them use the Internet, but if you use the Internet to keep up with your local friends, read some news and wikipedia and do some online shopping, you get by with German just fine. So those we would leave behind. I'm not saying that we shouldn't, just that we should not pretend that we aren't.
The Netherlands is "one of those" countries. Then it's not an educational problem, but a problem that almost anything is available in German. Which won't be the case forever, since English is slowly taking over the world (wide web). I think the people that don't want to conversate in English, are doing this more for principal/fundamental reasons than for practical ones. Since learning English is way easier than learning C++/C4Script, and has way more benefits than either of these.
Some other thing here is that, in my opinion, logging the channel and making this available on this website, could be greatly beneficiary to OC development. If this even legally allowed, but that's another issue. Then switching to English is just the only option.
Some other thing here is that, in my opinion, logging the channel and making this available on this website, could be greatly beneficiary to OC development. If this even legally allowed, but that's another issue. Then switching to English is just the only option.
>Since learning English is way easier than learning C++/C4Script
Oh, I wouldn't say so. :)
I think the amount of non English content on the web is raising faster than the amount of English content. Whether that's true for any individual language, I don't know, but I don't feel taken over :-)
Well certainly not true over here. But this shows me why a transition to English stumbled upon so much resistance.
Your're right. In East Germany, the no one of the adoults can speak English, because they had to learn russian (the "big brother" Sovjet Union :( )
But if we would speak English, i would commend to keep writing the first letter of a Noun as a capital letter, it's much easier to read. English is a Clounch of small Words without Commas, and i can't get an Overview over the text when it's so unstructured.
But if we would speak English, i would commend to keep writing the first letter of a Noun as a capital letter, it's much easier to read. English is a Clounch of small Words without Commas, and i can't get an Overview over the text when it's so unstructured.
>and i can't get an Overview over the text when it's so unstructured.
Well, then you should get some practice reading english texts.
Yes but it don't changes the fact that an English text is harder to overview.
Yes, but id don't changes the Fact, that an english Text is harder to overview.
Yes, but id don't changes the Fact, that an english Text is harder to overview.
Actually I could read your first sentence much more fluently. Your "fact" is in your head.
maybe you're right.
i don't know what to say about this because in fact it's easier to understand your mother tongue no matter how good your english is. and i dont feel well writing english here.
i don't know what to say about this because in fact it's easier to understand your mother tongue no matter how good your english is. and i dont feel well writing english here.
Well, don't worry. No one will laugh at you. Few people have perfect english. ^^
that's not the problem. I mean i feel not at home, i like to prefer speaking a language (human or programming language) which i can speak well (my mother tonge, my programming language that i use mostly)
I think there are enough people in UK/USA .
And Canada!
Commas make sentences much more fluently.
Dont forget uppercase-Nouns. Thats proven. Even when your mother tongue has no uppercase nouns.
I hate uppercase nouns. I'd prefer to spell the words I want to emphasize with a capital letter. Would make the writing more tongue-like. But this is drifting off.
hm.
"In Clonk, the Player controls small, humanoid Beings - the so-called Clonks - within a two-dimensional, dynamically modifiable Landscape using Keyboard or Mouse. Clonks interact with their surrounding Landscape, Animals, Weather, Buildings and Objects. The game can be played alone or in multiplayer in Split-Screen or via local Network or Internet."
or
"In Clonk, the player controls small, humanoid beings - the so-called Clonks - within a two-dimensional, dynamically modifiable landscape using keyboard or mouse. Clonks interact with their surrounding landscape, animals, weather, buildings and objects. The game can be played alone or in multiplayer in split-screen or via local network or Internet."
"In Clonk, the Player controls small, humanoid Beings - the so-called Clonks - within a two-dimensional, dynamically modifiable Landscape using Keyboard or Mouse. Clonks interact with their surrounding Landscape, Animals, Weather, Buildings and Objects. The game can be played alone or in multiplayer in Split-Screen or via local Network or Internet."
or
"In Clonk, the player controls small, humanoid beings - the so-called Clonks - within a two-dimensional, dynamically modifiable landscape using keyboard or mouse. Clonks interact with their surrounding landscape, animals, weather, buildings and objects. The game can be played alone or in multiplayer in split-screen or via local network or Internet."
Uuuummmm. That is completely a matter of what you are used to. when I read your english text with capital letters, it feels like I am stumbling over the words. :S
Considering all the responses I still think having a clean break and using a different channel (maybe even on freenode) would solve most of these problems.
>Considering all the responses I still think having a clean break and using a different channel (maybe even on freenode) would solve most of these problems.
Please no. Just for the sake of the length of my channel list %(
You could then drop #clonkdev :P
Yepp, but I would get a new server window and a new channel window. And up to now every clonk-related channel has been in euIRC :/
ACK, actually. Whats the name of the channel? I'll join.
An obvious choice would be "#openclonk", but if we're the only two people, that wouldn't be very useful anyway. You can't enforce something like that. :)
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