I was working on this (kind of unrelated to the topic) and noticed the bow is the only tool/weapon which is still flammable. I guess this is a relic from the beginning when wooden tools could burn but we then realised, it is far too frustating to dip into a small pond of lava and have all your stuff burn up.With my changes, certain items will burn for 2 seconds (with no effect if extinguished in time) and then change into a 'Burned Object' definition which is only good for fuel and will otherwise burn into ashes.
I don't think that, even with these changes, we want to change tools back to flammable again. I am inclined to make the bow fire-proof as well. Any objections (beside 'this isn't realistic')?
Also, for some inconsistencies: wooden barrels do burn. There is no explanation other than 'I feel that it's ok to have those burn'...
![[de]](/mwf/flags/de.png "Germany")
Fire-proof bow would also fix this issue: http://bugs.openclonk.org/view.php?id=1613
Yes, although my solution (NoBurnDecay + change into Burned Object) would also fix it.
After some thought, the overall situation might be confusing. I don't know. These are all flammable objects:Animals (except Butterflies, Fireflies, Fish, Mooq, Lava Cores, Mosquitos, Piranhas, Small Piranhas, Pukas, Sharks, Zaps)
- okay, actually most of our animals are fire-proof?!
Coal
Cotton Seeds
Moss
Logs
Wooden Barrels
Explosives like dynamite, boompacks, the dynamite box, powder kegs, iron bombs
Grapple Bow (hmm, also a flammable tool, I missed that one)
Rope bridge planks?
Hopefully all buildings
Hopefully all plants (but I know at least one that does not burn yet, my fault)
And the airship. Other vehicles are indestructible except for the lorry which explodes.
It's a bit...arbitrary, isn't it?
Maybe everything that has wood as a component should burn?And the Clonk could be a closed container so that your bow doesn't burn when you swim in lava (but only when you throw it into the lava). And I like the common "burned object" definition :)
Having all wooden things or things with wooden parts burn was originally the idea, yeah. But I was very annoying with tools & lava.I like the idea however, that everything inside a clonk doesn't catch fire. ClosedContainer doesn't do that but it's no big hassle implementing such a function, yes. Of course, lava would be a real monster, eating up all your stuff.
![[jp]](/mwf/flags/jp.png "Japan")
Currently, if you only touch lava for a very short time, you will survive. How about only passing the fire "inwards" if a certain threshold of burn/temperature has been reached and the Clonk is likely to die anyway? (And probably never pass it inward if the Respawn rule is configured to restore the items.)
Lava can get you to 100% very quickly iirc. So iff anyone decides for that, the "threshold" could well be 100%. For completion: you will die above 50% without water.
Lava does also not set 100% fire to submerged items. I haven't tested it but a short touch that doesn't kill the clonk should also not set complete fire to items.
Here's the logic btw:https://git.openclonk.org/openclonk.git/blob/HEAD:/planet/System.ocg/Fire.c#l79
The callback is called every few frames (maybe every 10 or so, not sure anymore).
Like, even a small wash of lava going through your base might destroy a lot of things!
>Like, even a small wash of lava going through your base might destroy a lot of things!
Only the things lying around in the open. Build chests, you fool!
And don't forget the 'single pixel line of lava on the floor' issue. Dropping stuff in there can also lead to utter destruction!
After some more thought, I might like the idea. I would make a new building, a metal chest. Going with the wooden barrel (flammable) -> metal barrel (fire-/lava-proof) scheme, the metal chest would protect all stored items from fire.In all scenarios with lava, you will then want to construct metal chests.
A fun little thing would maybe be having the metal chest vulnerable to acid ;)
A metal chest skin is already in the repository btw.I am not 100% convinced of making buildings inflammable at all (what's the additional gameplay value?), but idk. Maybe it's fine
Noo, not buildings. No, no! (except for the Wind Generator which is already flammable?)Only items.
Buildings get destroyed by explosions only.
But things inside your buildings will get burned. Except when we say that all buildings block lava.
You tell me! You probably know that that's how it is right now and how it always has been in clonk. It just wasn't my intention to change it. But we can change it, of course.
I think lava being blocked by every container has upsides: * It's consistent
* Items don't _start_ burning inside a container (or clonk) which could be easily overlooked in a hectic situation
>I am not 100% convinced of making buildings inflammable at all (what's the additional gameplay value?), but idk. Maybe it's fine
It is up to taste, I think I would like the dangerous structure eating lava.
And it would actually make lava a really potent weapon against buildings, and maybe we could use something like that?
>so that your bow doesn't burn when you swim in lava
But I really like how right now, gunpowder and dynamite explodes when you dive in lava :(
It's probably not a good idea to have the clonk shield all items except a select few (those that explode) from lava. So we either have items in the clonk catch fire and have some important items (weapons and tools) be fire-proof, or fire-proof everything the clonk carries.
Imo, let's everything (made from wood or explosive) catch fire then.. I think the main issue was when you didn't know the stuff was broken. And that will be different with your changes
![[us]](/mwf/flags/us.png "United States")
We just played a bit, and this breaks many of the missions now; especially Treasure Hunt. I'd say we should devide in favor of the player here and don't incinerate tools in the Clonk (even if gunpowder no longer explodes).
Yes, okay. I am in favor of things that reduce frustration.I would have thought that this is not a big issue because usually when you lose your stuff, you are also dead anyway. But I didn't think of respawning with the carried tools.
The mission should have safeguards, refreshing players' tools and extinguishing them when respawning.
They are already extinguished. But by then it's too late because they transformed into their "unusable" version.Also, auto-replenishing doesn't work so easily in Treasure Hunt, because you find your tools on the way.
It's also really annoying if you had a short dip in lava, but luckily made it out alive and cooled off in water, just to notice you have to respawn anyway because all your tools are gone.
On the other hand you are super stupid if you dip into lava with a powder keg! I agree that we should be avoiding player annoyance, but maybe we can make exceptions for some rather obvious and dangerous items/tools.
Escape the volcano EXTREME might also break with it, at least when every player got lava-showered once. When playing it alone this might become very frustrating as you are the only player and you simply cannot win anymore when your tools burn right in the middle of the parcours.
![[pt]](/mwf/flags/pt.png "Portugal")
On the other side, Hot Ice (our MVP scenario atm!) kind of depends on having your grenade launcher "incinerate" when it comes into contact with lava.
I'd suggest implementing something that lets the developer choose which objects should burn in the player's inventory (kinda like the ContactIncinerate-solution you proposed?)
I'd suggest implementing something that lets the developer choose which objects should burn in the player's inventory (kinda like the ContactIncinerate-solution you proposed?)
Does it? You die anyways when falling into lava, even if the bomb doesn't explode.
Not necessarily. You can, if you're lucky/skilled enough, jump out of the lava pool and land on the ice again (as you probably noticed in Native's Christmas Ice Extreme mod.)
Not particularly fond of any inconsistent behaviour. The inconsistency here being that the clonk can dive into lava and keep certain objects but these objects burn down if thrown into lava.
I'm with Clonkonaut, also see my points here. I think scenarios which depend on there being a extra rule about these things could just make that explicit. In your example, you could just code something that kills the player in an explosion when they hit lava, and then write something about extra-hot lava that sets off all explosives when too close in the description of the scenario.
I've pushed a change to no longer incinerate items in the Clonk to make the missions work again.
We played Acid Goldmine yesterday, before that change. It was awful. Lava pixels everywhere, so many burnt tools. Thank you.
It might be cool to have burning tools as a rule so you can activate it for scenarios where you want them to burn
Was just thinking about newbies who use the editor and have no scripting experience but would like to create an own scenario anyway.
I don't know if that is something we should suggest to Newbies anyway (by making it an easy-to-place rule, it more or less becomes a suggestion). If it's too annoying in one scenario, it's probably too annoying in any.
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