![[gb]](/mwf/flags/gb.png "United Kingdom")
Maybe "spontaneous" is the wrong word: I'm thinking of catastrophic circumstances, like your enemy surprising you or meteorites pulverizing your settlement. After the dust has settled, the last thing you want to worry about is growing crops. Background heal would eventually sort out the situation automatically (if you survive!), while you are doing more interesting work.
![[de]](/mwf/flags/de.png "Germany")
So let's say you want to mine, because you need X of ressource Y to complete Z. In your mine you get hit by a flint. Because you don't want to die to another accident, you run back to your base, place your Clonk in front of your flagpole, leave the keyboard, go grab something to drink, maybe check your emails and get back to Clonk because your Clonk is now healed.I don't like that - that's why I am still undecided! Because passive healing over time sucks as well!
Yeah, then you'd want food. Maybe we should rather make it an "as well as"...? But that would again leave food in the uneasy place where it's only useful in very specific situations.
Wait, guys. The "bakery/farmstead" is a production building like the workshop right? So you can also go there and just buy your bread (=healing). Problem solved, you got something similar as the heal-for-gold-in-base in CR.
Well, if you have so much gold that you don't have something better to do with it, that is. Healing is quite optional, after all: In tight games you might well opt to have your Clonk running around with 1% HP so you can reach the scenario goal faster. And then the slightest mishap kills your Clonk. It just seems to me like we're setting up our players for loads of frustration here.
Hm, having slow automatic healing on the Clonk no matter where he is actually starts growing on me... ;)
Hm, having slow automatic healing on the Clonk no matter where he is actually starts growing on me... ;)
>Hm, having slow automatic healing on the Clonk no matter where he is actually starts growing on me... ;)
But that has the same negative aspects as healing in the base - just not limited to the base:
Let's say you are exploring the landscape, meet a monster (or a zapnest, whatever) and survive the fight with 1/4 HP. What are you going to do? Continue exploring? Probably not. Try to get back to your base in safety? Not safe enough. Sit in a safe spot for five minutes until your HP is full again? Would be the best!
I don't think a part of the game should be to sit somewhere and wait until your HP is back up.
I know, that's pretty much what Yahtzee wrote on the topic as well. Standing around isn't really something we should encourage.
Still. As you don't really suffer any ill effects from lack of health right now, I feel you could easily forget it. Play half an hour with your Clonk, until you suddenly realize that you lost most of your HP in that mining accident back at the start of the game. Background healing would model that the Clonk would obviously feel it and do something against it once he gets the chance, so having him run around - apparently healthy - means that he's actually healthy eventually.
Also note that in rounds with quick respawn it might seem crazy to invest any time at all into regaining health, making Clonks suicide from low health. At that point, just reaching the flag should probably instantly refill your health to compensate for that. Maybe with a time-limit.
Still. As you don't really suffer any ill effects from lack of health right now, I feel you could easily forget it. Play half an hour with your Clonk, until you suddenly realize that you lost most of your HP in that mining accident back at the start of the game. Background healing would model that the Clonk would obviously feel it and do something against it once he gets the chance, so having him run around - apparently healthy - means that he's actually healthy eventually.
Also note that in rounds with quick respawn it might seem crazy to invest any time at all into regaining health, making Clonks suicide from low health. At that point, just reaching the flag should probably instantly refill your health to compensate for that. Maybe with a time-limit.
>At that point, just reaching the flag should probably instantly refill your health to compensate for that. Maybe with a time-limit.
Don't forget that your base will probably be cluttered with flag poles. Attacking would be even less rewarding if you fight with a huge disadvantage every single time (because the enemy can just back off for a second and go hug a flagpole). Bread, on the other hand, could also be brought by the attacker :)
>As you don't really suffer any ill effects from lack of health right now, I feel you could easily forget it
Now I finally think I get what you want.
But I think that in a real game "forgetting" your health or saying "oh, it was just a small hit - I don't want to waste a bread on that!" is either a bit unrealistic or can be countered by other game elements - for example mushrooms, moss or any other "free" health regeneration that the player would not be afraid of using. And the player would probably run past it often enough to be reminded of his health from time to time.
Also you can still always flash the screen when low on health! ;)
Cluttered? We are obviously operating on very different concepts of flag density. I am still gunning for about the balance of Seven Keys (yeah, yeah, sorry for mentioning it every 5 minutes, it's my main reference point), where I rarely see teams even getting a second flag.
Yeah, we could even cut out the middle men and have bushes heal you, just while passing by. But even if we take the stockpiling aspect out, proper food industry would probably still have too little advantages left.
The implicit assumption here is that we don't want to do that.
> for example mushrooms, moss or any other "free" health regeneration that the player would not be afraid of using
Yeah, we could even cut out the middle men and have bushes heal you, just while passing by. But even if we take the stockpiling aspect out, proper food industry would probably still have too little advantages left.
> Also you can still always flash the screen when low on health! ;)
The implicit assumption here is that we don't want to do that.
>I am still gunning for about the balance of Seven Keys (yeah, yeah, sorry for mentioning it every 5 minutes, it's my main reference point), where I rarely see teams even getting a second flag.
Well, they should be big enough to not annoy the player with placing new flags the whole time - on the other hand they should be small enough that fighting over an area controlled by a flag is actually realistic and winning that fight would not mean that half the player's settlement is gone. Because then he can as well surrender
>But even if we take the stockpiling aspect out, proper food industry would probably still have too little advantages left.
I might misunderstand you there - but it has as many advantages/disadvantages as any other industry, or not?
The only "advantage" of metal ore industry is that you have metal as the only "advantage" of food industry is that you have food.
Or do you mean there are too few applications for food?
Food could be a bait for animals, even fuel for a monster-driven hamster-wheel (that generates electricity), give you probably an advantage in a fight that is at least as big as if you would carry another Teraflint or in those hardcore settlement scenario, which use some sort of hunger-rule, satisfy your hunger.
And probably a bunch of other things I did not think of yet :)
And don't forget that we can always make the food be the byproduct of another industry. Let's say we have some plant that grows the ressource you need for cloth (flags, ropes, whatever). Let's call it "cotton". Imagine you could - on an alternative production branch - turn that cotton into something to eat!
That would not introduce a new ressource ("crops") and hassle (planting crops) for the player we would not have otherwise - and that is one of your concerns, right?
I actually don't like automatic healing, either fast or slow, cause it allows too much for defensive strategies. If you received a blow from a sword, the best thing is to run away until you regained your 10 HP and start your sword battle over again. Everyone knows these minor melee battles where defensive strategies are already the best, and staying out of fights is rewarded (I am actually a fan of this strategy, one should always use the best available, right?). Another example are mage battles were "automatic" healing is already the case, to counter healing strategies extremely strong and fast-repeatable spells had to be introduced to make these battles attractive at all. The normal clonk only has flints and a bow, I think that automatic healing, how slow it even might be, will lead to more defensive behaviour of the player.
Concerning the mage battles: Mage battles without healing tend to be played even more in a camping style. People run around at safe distance and try to hit their enemies with the longest distance spell, then run away and avoid getting hit. No matter how low the damage dealt; it's always a good strategy because "every hit counts".In the end, I think this is just another decision that should be left to the scenario designer. In my opinion, the standard object pack should just provide an easy method to set this e.g. via rules.
Also it would leave the healing aura in the place where it's only useful in specific situations ;)(which would be: doing stuff in your base instead of exploring and conquering the landscape!)
mh, what is the goal of the healing aura? That you have some minor healing without having to invest time into it?
Couldn't that be solved by, for example, berry bushes which provide berries over time instead of the healing aura? :)
(That's how it works in cultures, for example: You can build all different sorts of buildings to get food. But in case you lose your bakery and hunter you are not instantly lost, because you can use berries for a limited period of time - until the bushes are empty)
> 2.
Well, it doesn't necessarily have to be "produce x breads" or something alike. E.g. there could be a scenario in which you have to rescue wipfs und guard them in some enclosure. While they are there you have to feed them. So the need of food increases with more wipfs and the slower you work on the free wipfs, the more food you will need.
That's what I meant by "just drop some objects and let the developers decide what to do".
Ah, also a bit offtopic now that you just wanted to sum up what other people said. Regarding the crystals and probably also other new&old materials:Do you guys think a
crystalShard->Object2Material(GetMaterial("Crystal")) function would be possible that converts the object graphic of a given object into a material (but of course keeps the "texture")? I mean, is it technically possible? Cause that would create awesome possibilities to place materials in more scenic ways that is not limited to mere "chunk-placement". Imagine the rocks and flintstone rocks from that one Knights scenario - only as real material, not as objects. Imagine stalagmites and stalagtites, some odd magnetic material that only comes in perfectly round shapes (or whatever!), a great variety of shapes and stones lying around in the landscape (see for example the landscape of Cortex Command, they do it similarily).
That's actually something that would have been easier in CR. Now with GPU-texturing, we'd have to carry around texture coordinates in individual pixels. Hm. Well, with shadows and bloom I require two landscape textures anyway, so I guess there's enough space right now.
Thinking about it a bit more... This could get problematic on the edges. Texture coordinates would be interpolated there between different textures, which could look very bad. Even if I could detect that situation in the shader, it's still not trivial to fix - if we just leave the texture coordinates constant over the edges, it will probably still produce artifacts when one texture is inserted rotated.
>food
The biggest problem with food would be an extended energy bar. The clonk could swim through acid or something, if he carries a bag of food.
What about Clonk supply? => A new clonk would need food to grow. Domestic animals like a horse should need something, too.
>Oil, crystal, sulphur
Serious? Those materials actually are the best for improvement. Oil: You know Strongholds use of pitch? Interaction with fire would add a new element to melee scenarios and could work fine against wooden buildings. Also in settlement scenarios, think about pipelines and derricks, why abondone them? Sulphur could be placed at and beside volcanos, which would make them more challenging, and I have this feeling that we will need more explosions and much more modifications (like rockets). With crystals we can do a lot of fantasy stuff in the future. Crystals have a more realistic feel to it than just magic which sparks right out of the air.
Well, keep going. I'm really looking forward to it :)
![[ca]](/mwf/flags/ca.png "Canada")
>The biggest problem with food would be an extended energy bar. The clonk could swim through acid or something, if he carries a bag of food.
Not if clonks can only eat while standing on the ground.
>Serious? Those materials actually are the best for improvement. Oil: You know Strongholds use of pitch?
I would just like to point out to everyone that since the Clonk world is not the real world, Oil doesn't need to be an incredibly lucrative thing to sell. Instead, it could be quite cheap and primarily used for making pitch, firebombs, flamethrowers, torches, (perhaps each engine-clad vehicle would require 1 barrel of oil to construct?) and other such oil related things. Gold is obviously the 'Get Cash Money NOW!!!' material, so it seems redundant to have another, easier to mine, more lucrative material.
Powered by mwForum 2.29.7 © 1999-2015 Markus Wichitill
