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Could you maybe summarize the current status in a different thread? At least I would like to do some work into this direction, but have no idea where to start.
Edit: and maybe you could push whatever stuff is semi finished and still only locally on your pc and merge master into controls?
Edit: and maybe you could push whatever stuff is semi finished and still only locally on your pc and merge master into controls?
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The status is that the framework (big menu, showing smaller menu-parts with callbacks) and the inventory menu work. So building should be able to insert their menus into that main menu via callbacks. An unsolved issue is how to refresh those open menus - not so much the "how" but more the "when": how are changes detected with the least work for the producer (aka "with the easiest interface").
This, of course, is a major GUI scripting part *). If someone wanted to get used to the GUI things as the first step, one possibility would be to change the gold display in the top-right corner to use the new menu interface, or add a HP bar on the left, or change the crew selection buttons to use the new menus. All this stuff is obviously low priority because things also work without it. But it might be a good start to get used to the menu interface.
*) It at least requires understanding of the GUI stuff, even if most of the tricky script work is already done (aka, "how do I maintain a framework-menu with sub-entries").
PS: the next engine stuff I have to do is probably adjusting the menu stuff to use the old C4GUI. For the greater good in the long run™.
PPS: but I will at least be semi-busy with my bachelor's thesis in the next two months. That's why I said I probably won't do anything of the bigger (engine-work) stuff in the next time.
Okay, good luck with your thesis then!
I will have a look at some point, is it safe to merge master into controls?
I will have a look at some point, is it safe to merge master into controls?
![](https://attach.openclonk.org/avatars/65-0196.png)
>I will have a look at some point, is it safe to merge master into controls?
Hopefully. That's something that I should find time to do, though :)
Then I can check whether I have unpushed stuff lying around (I think I have a commit that ends with
"[TO AMMEND]"
) and at least one branch branching off controls :D
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Also I'd still suggest to make Firestone yield chunks, too, for consistency.
And how would that work? You throw a big chunk and blow up the whole map?
I think we wanted small explosives available with the shovel to incentivize using explosives to mine instead of the pickaxe.
I think we wanted small explosives available with the shovel to incentivize using explosives to mine instead of the pickaxe.
![](https://attach.openclonk.org/avatars/336-99322.png)
And manufacture it into dynamite/split into handsized firestones in the chemlab.
Maybe it's way too easy to mine with the ludicrous amount of small firestones you get atm? There should be a bit more to explosives than just "dig out and you are done". Having fewer, but bigger explosives add the challange to handle it safely when mining to avoid loss of fingers, limbs and life.
And you'd still use dangerous explosions if you have them right on your hands instead of going through all the trouble to make a pickaxe right at the beginning.
Also a nice "big bomb" for melees with catapults.
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> introducing a firestone material to make stuff easier in the beginning.
Not easier. Less boring. So you don't have to build a chemlab and windmill first before mining, if you don't want to. And having a big explosive chunk does in no way go against the players ability to start mining right at the beginning. They just have to be a bit more thoughtful how to use them, until they decide it's time to have a chemlab to make safer explosives.
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> So no more in earth objects?
You can spawn the chunks in earth! Also, we can think of other stuff to fill up the earth with.
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Next approach will then be to have all materials carry heavy. Which according to a quick scan through Objects.ocd would apply to the following objects:
Amethyst*, Cloth, Cotton, Earth**, Metal, Moss, Ruby*
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*: I think that Maikel did these when making all those settlement scenarios about ruby hunting and stuff. So, I'd like your opinion on this. It would break the theme to have material not drop chunks, on the other hand you wouldn't sell a big chunk of gemstone or would you? I don't know. We could however have the windmill split the chunk into little gems (which wouldn't eradicate the little objects at all!). Also, this might break your intended way of mining in the sky island scenarios. I would leave the whole matter up to you.
**: I think the earth object isn't used at all anymore. We might consider to delete it without compensation.
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Also, there are some cornercases here which I can't decide on:
Loam:
I want to leave this a 'small' object for practical reasons. But I can picture it as a chunk, too. Opinions?
Seeds:
I see no need here and it's the same case as loam: You can use these for stuff (planting).
Flour:
Useless stuff but if seeds are small, flour should so, too. But when changing seeds, this can also change!
I agree with **
Regarding *:
Sven originally made this, and also most scenarios, I made the GemGrabbers scenario and there I could rework the scenario in principle to adapt to carry heavy rubies. However I don't like the grinding idea in the windmill, it sounds quite ridiculous in my opinion. I would then just make them carry heavy, a bit bigger, but not as big as the other carry heavy resources and keep them as directly sell able at the flag.
Then there is the issue with the teleglove method for mining ruby stalactites, which was the coolest where you would hang from a grappling bow, plant a dynamite and catch the ruby with your teleglove... How do telegloves work on carryheavy? In another ruby scenario by Sven you could fetch the rubies from a lava lake with the teleglove. These present some redesign issues at least, but one could work around them. I wouldn't see the current scenarios as static entities, they should evolve and be improved as the game improves.
What do we do about the normal sized rocks? Only the hammer needs them as a construction material, so if we replace that with metal we could get rid off the normal size rocks as well.
Regarding *:
Sven originally made this, and also most scenarios, I made the GemGrabbers scenario and there I could rework the scenario in principle to adapt to carry heavy rubies. However I don't like the grinding idea in the windmill, it sounds quite ridiculous in my opinion. I would then just make them carry heavy, a bit bigger, but not as big as the other carry heavy resources and keep them as directly sell able at the flag.
Then there is the issue with the teleglove method for mining ruby stalactites, which was the coolest where you would hang from a grappling bow, plant a dynamite and catch the ruby with your teleglove... How do telegloves work on carryheavy? In another ruby scenario by Sven you could fetch the rubies from a lava lake with the teleglove. These present some redesign issues at least, but one could work around them. I wouldn't see the current scenarios as static entities, they should evolve and be improved as the game improves.
What do we do about the normal sized rocks? Only the hammer needs them as a construction material, so if we replace that with metal we could get rid off the normal size rocks as well.
![](https://attach.openclonk.org/avatars/65-0196.png)
>we could get rid off the normal size rocks as well.
Ack. The hammer can easily take one big chunk imo. It's not about realism but about playability :)
>which was the coolest where you would hang from a grappling bow, plant a dynamite and catch the ruby with your teleglove
What about shooting a carry-heavy thing with the grappling bow and attaching your rope to it? :D
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> How do telegloves work on carryheavy?
Good question, I have no idea.
> Only the hammer needs them as a construction material
Ah, didn't know that. I'd replace it with a rock chunk then (I think this was a balancing decision?).
![](https://attach.openclonk.org/avatars/29-2030.png)
Also, it's a pretty advanced item only available in few scenarios, so it is supposed to be strong.
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>advanced tool
The thing needs only 2 metal? Does it count as advanced, only because it's produced in the research lab, wich also is just built like any other structure?
btw, when I play a map it always drives me crazy when the scenario designer decided that that some few items in particular aren't producable, because you don't have knowledge.
When you have made the scenario, it is ok for you, because you know what you can do and what not, but imagine playing the scen for the first time: You could build a research lab only to notice that you can't produce the item you wanted to, so you build the lab for nothing.
From a players view, I generally hate it when sometimes (advanced) stuff is producable, and sometimes not.
Well the teleglove could take a gem as material as well to make it hard to produce!
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> The thing needs only 2 metal?
Bleh. Wasn't never ironed out but it's intended to be advanced. Soon, you'll need planks to construct an inventor's lab!
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> From a players view, I generally hate it when sometimes (advanced) stuff is producable, and sometimes not.
But that's pretty standard and a useful tool for making scenarios more different. I like those advanced settlement missions where you have to fulfill tasks to obtain construction plans.
If this is not transparent to the player, then maybe there should be an easy-to-access tech-tree to see what can be produced and what is not obtainable. Like e.g. this. Or maybe even add the stuff that can be produced to the preview you get when mouse-hovering the structure in the construction menu.
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so players would need to create some infastructure to use the teleglove for moving heavey objects, and could handle those objects more easy while in base, in cost for energy.
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I'd say that I'm halfway done. But since there's an oral exam coming up for me on 4th March, I won't get anything done until then. Luckily, afterwards I will have finished my first Staatsexamen and start applying for jobs. Lots of free time then!!1
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*: Every material in the earth, not wood!
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Next step would be to replace other resources which are special or refined. Namely metal and wood and all of the things I can't remember right now. I haven't got any models from Matthi :( So all I can do is to give these objects the same chunk model. Testing will be horrible!
Yes I think the teleglove still works on them, this items needs to be rebalanced later anyways, so don't worry too much about that.
Maybe you can give some of the chunks stripes to distinguish them.
Maybe you can give some of the chunks stripes to distinguish them.
![](https://attach.openclonk.org/avatars/30-1442.png)
![](https://attach.openclonk.org/avatars/30-1442.png)
But okay, I'll sketch something.
![](https://attach.openclonk.org/avatars/35-6865.png)
![](https://attach.openclonk.org/avatars/30-1442.png)
Needs more sketching then.
![](https://attach.openclonk.org/avatars/35-6865.png)
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